106. Creating True Belonging for Students of Color in Independent Schools with Jonathan Lee

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Tara: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Burch. And I’m Tara Clays. Today we’re joined by Jonathan Lee. Jonathan Lee is a coach, educator, mentor, husband and father. We’re so glad you’re here. Thanks so much for joining us, Jonathan. 

Jonathan: Uh, thank you ladies for having me. It’s an honor to be here to talk about being an independent school graduate, independent school administrator, and, uh, all those other things you named earlier.

So thank you. 

Aubrey: We are so excited you’re here and I, I’m really interested for you to tell a little bit about your story and how it has led you to working with independent schools. Specifically, what was your experience like as one of only a small number of black students in a predominantly white independent school, and how has that experience shaped your work as an educator in the leader today?

Jonathan: Uh, thank you. I am a, uh, 2001 graduate of Episcopal High School of Alexandria, Virginia. A hundred percent boarding school there. I went in as one of five black kids, uh, entering, and I left as one of five black kids as a senior, and three of my classmates and peers either did not get asked back or did not come back in that moment while being there.

It was difficult. It was hard. My parents are very resilient in their conversations with me. It was Episcopalian school. I am a Christian in that way. So those values of that moment were really important. And as I left, I went to William and Mary, uh, played basketball there for a couple years, and then came back to Episcopal to be a varsity basketball coach at Episcopal High School.

And then later moved up my family on dorm to be a ninth grade dorm parent and ninth grade dorm head. In that process, I learned the value of creating community. I love boarding school. I love independent school as well, but that boarding school life was so, so important of how it taught me how to be a people person, how to do podcasts like these and just how to connect.

I firmly believe as a black man in education and a school administrator. That it’s so important for me to be professional, be well-spoken, be engaging, because I never know where someone has a stereotypical concept of what it is to be black, and I wanna debunk that philosophy. So my hope is to always lead by that understanding, which is a heavy burden to carry, but to be professional in that way, to set up positive conversations going forward.

Tara: Yeah. I’m so glad that you shared your story and that perspective with us. Obviously it’s something that we can’t relate to, so I’m happy to learn more about it myself and share it, especially in these times. You know, I’m wondering when you, your experience must have had a lot of challenges to it and, and how that led you to the work that you do now.

Jonathan: It was kind of a calling. I was offered a job prior to my father’s passing from brain cancer to be an admissions officer and kind of said no, wasn’t ready yet. Later got engaged in to my lovely wife and then the, the calling came back again and I said, yes. And then it allowed me to kind of move from DC to Virginia to be down the street from my child at home, to kind of be there for my father in that wake of what he was dealing with.

And then to take care of my mom as she had been married to my father for 38 years. So in his passing, being very codependent and loving as a wife she struggled with kind of what it meant to not have her partner there. So in that moment, it was kind of like those two callings meant something. And it provided synergy and autonomy to come back to be able to have summers off, which was great in the independent school world and leaving the private industry.

So it was really important for family and that’s kind of that moment that brought me back to independent school. But the coaching had me there always, and I. While not being a teacher, I love being around students. I love being around kids that I’ve done project finance, I’ve done revenue, I’ve done estimates to complete.

Those deliverables aren’t as fun as working with kids every day. We get older as they get younger but it still allows you to laugh in the wake of their growing pains. And I just love being a school administrator and that’s why I love, uh, working at independent schools. It’s such, so rewarding in that journey.

Aubrey: Thank you so much for sharing that and, and part of your journey. And I loved hearing about your passion for schools and having been so involved with them for in those many roles. And throughout your life. What do you think as you’ve gone through this journey, schools miss when trying to create a strong sense of belonging for students of color?

Jonathan: I think they miss the narrative of the journey, that if you can see all students holistically, particularly students of color and raise that tide of their experiences, everyone’s successful. As you think about the student experience creating belonging for students of color and students that are othered there’s a moment where that belonging, uh, grows as become graduates then as they become graduates and get jobs.

We all know that teachers don’t make a lot of money. School administrators might. Uh, so in that moment. How can you create a better teaching workforce if you don’t treat your students better? So in that moment of belonging, it starts from the admission process of being able to look at the students holistically about what not, not what they contribute to community, but how the community contribute to them, how much they can help them in that moment of growth.

And so from that moment, it starts for the funnel. I’m a former mission director. It’s the funnel. Getting the applicant, getting to the accepted student, getting to the student, being holistically seen, being a student, graduating, then coming back after graduation, to provide time and money to support, and then also being able to come back and want to be a teacher at the school.

So that belonging is a full cycle of a process.

Tara: I know that there’s been progress made and you know, you talked about being one of five. Students when you graduated and, and now the, the, the diversity rate at private schools I think is a little bit better. Not, not a ton, but we have seen progress. I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit about what progress has been made in light of where we are now in this country and, and how schools can move beyond sort of performative DEI efforts to create lasting change.

Jonathan: That’s so important. You said the key word about performative. Uh, there’s a moment where I can say what I feel and what I see and what my lived experience is. But it’s important to get back to the data. It’s important to look at the demographics of what a school looked like in the nineties versus the two thousands and so on.

To see that increase, it’s also important to look at that data on a faculty standpoint. Do you understand what happens when faculty go or come, and particularly faculty of color? I can think of a narrative as I was thinking about my journey. Very rarely do faculty of color leave with a positive desire.

To go to the next school. It was kind of a negative moment, which kind of spearheads a moment of what’s really being done. So looking at that data is so important. Again, emotions can tell you one thing, but data stands a test of time. It’s so important to look at that, to look at numbers and do the crunching.

Many schools looked at the documentation of even kendi, uh, anti-racism. But in the wake of that, and now that George Floyd and Breonna Taylor have been moved on in that moment, all those anti-racist moments are no longer on school websites. So how do you really say that the data was done? Did you look at the attrition of your students of color?

Did you look at the, the attrition of your faculty of color? Did you look at the engagement of your alumni in the wake of that anti-racism moment? And I would say many schools haven’t. There are many black alums and individuals that are waiting and alums of color, they have money, they have time. But they’re not donating ’cause they’re waiting for an actionable item that’s not performative to happen in their favor.

Tara: So interesting. I know Aubrey has a question, but I wanted to follow up for a second on this ’cause I’m, go ahead. I’m on a roll. But I, I really like the idea of alum and the role that they play and, you know, you are an alum, but I. I wonder if schools think about that very much. And if we can kind of pivot a little bit to marketing what role alumni play in the marketing efforts of a school or how schools, I know you talked about your funnel, but you know, getting students.

Into the independent school funnel to begin with. Takes, you know, takes getting comfortable with the idea of independent school, a need for it, a feeling that they could fit in what, you know, what can schools do with their alum to, you know, to, to help that outreach and help make students of color feel welcome.

Jonathan: Well first it’s the definition of legacy. As you think about that, I remember back in the day, Episcopal High School was $24,000. I now think it’s about $70,000 Now honestly, who has that money these days when you still have college for kids? So when you think about legacy, uh, if you take any school up north in New England, take a southern school or East Coast school, a West coast school, and think about legacy, it’s a birthright.

It’s that culture of who was accepted, who was there over time. So if you define legacy by grandfather or grandparent, there’s a moment where my ancestors didn’t have the autonomy to go to those schools. And in the wake of white flight and the creation of Brown V Voter education, independent schools jumped up with where they were and how they were founded.

Many of them in the fifties and seventies in that way. And so maybe legacy should be thought about with brothers and sisters or aunts and uncles. Which captured a different generational of alums and graduates in that way so that the numbers can be reflective in that moment. As you think about funding and your financial aid dollars or tuition assistance, whichever way you name them, how do you engage with those different populations of, if I graduate from our school, did I have a positive experience?

I think about how cool it would be. Even in a college level or independent school level, that if we’re in New England and I’m happen to be there, if you put out a call to different people of color at graduation and say, Hey, Jonathan, how about you show up in Alexandria, Virginia with your business card as the different black kids graduate and you’re there?

I would love to stand that up through my LLC at every school to have the black alums, Asian alums, the queer alums, whoever. Come back and hand those students’ business card and say, Hey, when you have that moment where you work in a department store after going to college for four years and you’re working there, reach out to me.

I’m happy to help. And in that engagement, it’s different from people have money, but people have time. Time is just as valuable as is money to contribute to an endowment of a school. If I come back and take a group of black kids to a barbershop because they’re in Alexandria and they’re from New Jersey or California, think about what that means in creating a positive moment there.

Think about it, what it means to take a young lady that needs to get their hair braided for micro braids for $180 and she has no clue what hair salon to go to. Think about if a kid wants to go to sneaker shopping or if they need to get a jacket and they’re too afraid to go to the financial aid director to get a jacket.

’cause they’re from Florida, but they’re in New England, Boston, and they don’t have a heavier jacket than a windbreaker to go to Exeter. Andover. Small things like that that alums can engage in are so important.

Aubrey: That’s amazing. I think those were so, such, that’s such a good reframing of like how, how we can all make an impact and it’s so much more than just giving money. Time is just as precious as money in so many cases and just as impactful, I think. Uh, just hearing your examples for sure. I’m curious, you know.

I wanna go kind of back to your, your talk about data. And, and I would love to hear from your perspective, like what sort of data would be helpful for schools to look at annually instead of just like when something comes up, they start pulling data randomly. Like what should they be looking at annually?

And also I had a follow up question, which I don’t know if we can tie into this part, but like also, and then missions funnel. Like what, how do you. Make that actionable. Like what are the actionable steps in that funnel to be able to make sure people, you know, are onboarded properly, that they’re, they’re supported during their journey and that we’re making it a, a place that they want to return to, and that they feel a sense of belonging towards.

Jonathan: First tackling the admission point is just using heat map of zip codes. There’s a moment that word of mouth is really great for schools, but now you have to be really, uh, poignant in your marketing. And how do you do that? So one is look at a heat map of the places you already have. That word of mouth is great.

Your student enrollment is great. Then look at the heat map of the zip codes where you don’t have students where you maybe skipped a demographic. Then looking to say, okay. I did at one of my previous schools, I looked at a four year moment of who was on financial aid for the school, what their dean of students in fraction lists looked like with their behavior.

I looked up where their colleges and their academics were. I looked at what extracurriculars they did because again, in independent schools you’re trifecta of all those areas. Same as a faculty member. And then I was able to project. What type of student, through an enrollment lens of what we saw made sense of a student engagement from a funnel.

Unfortunately, what I found, those full pay legacy kids, they were at the bottom 10% of the behavior area at the great area and the various things. What I also saw was those non-athletic brown and black girls were in the top 20% of the school. But they went unrecognized and unnoticed. And in that moment I found that you could basically say, let’s stop looking at athletics.

Let’s start looking at just girls that just are brown that just come in with the academic chops. But if you need to have a school that has sports teams for three seasons, then things look different. And so in that moment, how do you use that data and those analytical things to say. I feel this way, but let the data tell the narrative.

And I was able to present at people of color conference on that data and that use of that report, having looked at it, it involved a lot of data on the spreadsheet, a lot of line items. It involved me codifying the data so it wasn’t someone’s blatant name on the list. But in that moment it was really important information.

And as you think about that, if schools can slow down and have a data administrator and have someone that has the FA data, the student report data. The the student attrition data is also important. When families leave a school, they’re leaving for a reason. We can’t just say they were not mission aligned.

We have to say, was it ’cause of funding? Was it ’cause of logistics? Was it ’cause of culture? Was it ’cause of lack of communication and transparency? If you can codify that over a three year period or four of arc of a journey of your departing families, then you can start to see where the holes are and how to then figure out your root cause analysis and do that best use case to improve, because although we’re schools.

We’re still businesses. So if someone says that you’re at a pie place and your pies tastes nasty, you have to go back and figure out what are the ingredients of your pie and what did you go wrong? Schools are the same way. While we have our vision and mission, if someone, if 10% of the people tell us they’re unhappy, then we have to go back to a project management lens and say, what needs to be solved?

It’s important.

Tara: So data is, uh, part of marketing and I wanna talk a little bit more about marketing with you even though it seems a little bit, I don’t know. There seems like this is a bigger issue than marketing, but, but that’s what we’re here to talk about. So, I can you talk about how marketing can be more reflective of a school’s true commitment to inclusion?

Kind of going back to that performative question a little bit, but, you know, how can it be more reflective of you know, of the school environment? 

Jonathan: I would love vice versa. I would love to partner with a marketing agency to tell me how do you market for diversity on your campus when you don’t have much diversity?

What is that mathematical equation? Because as a school you wanna put that person of color and many a times it’s a black kid. On that page, on that magazine, and then you look at it and say, oh, it’s a great photograph. Let’s find a third photograph in that segment and do that. I would love to, like, I put a call out for any marketing person to reach out and tell me what that scientific mathematical equation is of proper DI lens.

That if you have 27% students of color. 5% are black, 4% are Latinx. How do you show that reflectively in a series of photographs on your website? I’m still searching for that consultant or that answer as I work on my website and in the communities at my school because it’s difficult. ’cause I can tell you before I take a job or before I enroll my kids into a particular place.

I look at the faculty of color, I go to the directory and look page by page, and I count. I look at the lead admin team to see if it’s reflective of the city that I’m moving to or I’m thinking about moving to. I look at the students and take note of the student photographs of the students to see if it’s the same tokenized student of color on every landing page that I see.

And in that moment, I can say what I’m looking for as a person of color and what I’m not looking for. How do you do that? And then how do you get a committee of people to sit together in a room and say, let’s put together all of our magazines for alumni engagement. Let’s put together all of our summer brochures and let’s look at what it looks like holistically.

Because you can’t see it when you’re on the baseline level, but when you go up 10,000 foot level and you look at it, you can say. Wow, we’re really portraying our community in this demographic or light. So I think, again, it’s data, right? I’m going back to data of how do you get past the feeling to use the support of the whole narrative?

And again, I wish I had more of an answer for that, but I know when it doesn’t feel good and I try to support it with the numbers I’m seeing. 

Tara: Yeah, it’s a little bit of a, you know, of a catch 22 or, you know, what comes first, the chicken or the egg. How, you know, you can’t, you need to attract people who you want to come to your school and if they’re not part of your school, are they gonna wanna come?

So, yeah, it’s a big challenge. 

Jonathan: Definitely and people look at that again. I peruse every website and every video on Instagram, on niche.com, on boarding school reviews before I go to any job or any school visit, just to know the community I’m going to. So that if I’m a keynote speaker or a guest there, I know the tone and flavor of what I need to say to be digestible for that moment.

’cause again, uh, you have to know where you’re going and, and read the room.

Aubrey: Thank you. That’s so, very important For sure. I’m curious, you know, through another lens of marketing, so I talk about internal and external marketing, like internal marketing for retention, also external to prospective families, you know, what would you give to, like, what advice would you give to schools who are trying to build trust with both that prospective families as well as their current families?

Uh, specifically with students and families of color? 

Jonathan: Be transparent and be honest. If there’s a moment of family of color ask you, well, how will my child’s lived experience be, be direct. I used to tell families that they reach out to me As admissions officer, it’s gonna be difficult. There’ll be a moment your child will get called something that’s not their birth giving name.

I, as a faculty member, will be here to support them. So that way when that incident did occur and 95% of the time it did, guess what? The parents were already aligned to know. Go talk to Mr. Lee. And it’s unfortunate that that’s the case, but I was transparent, so no family ever entered. Any of my schools ever questioning were they not gonna have a moment of indiscretion where they weren’t gonna feel seen or heard.

And in that transparency, it was so valuable to be direct. And it also closing the loop. When incidents do occur, there’s a moment that we immediately go to, and if it’s restorative justice, we think about the assailant and the victim. We immediately go to the assailant and say, you said something that was inappropriate and it was a racial slur or a homophobic that was inappropriate.

But rarely do you go back to the victim to account for how they feel and how they felt and how to triage that moment, not just put the same kids back in the room to adjust, but how do you go back to the victim that felt with the indiscretion to have that conversation? So closing the loop is important in that communication that, again.

It’s about communicating that what you say and what your vision is and mission on your website. You have to fully close the loop and be transparent when incidents or things occur. Because families talk, just as we talk, as faculty members on our different things, families look up and they talk and say, Hey, who?

Who went to this school? Who knows this? Who’s a graduate? And if you didn’t close the loop on a dynamic, that family will certainly speak up to Let that new family know.

Tara: This is so helpful and important. I’m, I’m really grateful that you’re that you’re here today with us today especially. And I I wanna ask one kind of last question before we dive into some of our often asked questions. And this is what gives you hope when it comes to equity work in independent schools.

Jonathan: A tough question for today, to be honest. Mm-hmm. But what gives me hope is that in the current state of our country, there are a lot of young people picking a side. There are a lot of adults being forced now to pick a side that maybe they pick the wrong side and in the wake of how things are going, the youth are learning how to use their voice. They’re learning their importance of advocating for others. They’re learning the importance of community. Every time I have an 8-year-old son and a five-year-old daughter, when I watch them and who they are and what they’re learning, I. I’m amazed they’re able to read what’s right, what’s wrong, what’s good, what’s evil in a way that I as a parent have given them the synergy to understand that and now they’re acting well in their own nature.

So I think it’s the youth, it’s our kids. Our kids are the future leaders of the country, and I think that that’s what gives me hope every morning that I get them ready and make them breakfast and feed them and put them to bed and give them a shower. I smile knowing that they’re the next generation of people to counter whatever’s going on in the world today, for the next three years or so.

They’re the hope. 

Tara: Yeah, I think that’s a, you know, that’s a great point. And it’s for our audience, I think especially good to hear because they work with students all day long and so, you know, looking for them for hope is, is a great message. 

Jonathan: Definitely, definitely. I, I, again, I’m around kids too much not to have hope with them.

Aubrey: Thank you. That’s beautiful. I am definitely gonna transition, transition us to one of our, kind of go-to questions on the podcast and I’m, I’m eager to hear your thoughts on this one. So, you know, our podcast is called Mindful School Marketing. So there’s the word mindful in it. And we often relate to how, you know, talk about how it relates to.

Independent schools. , so I’d love to hear, how do you define mindfulness and how do you apply it to the work you do and to your life in general?

Jonathan: it’s crazy when you think about, as a parent, I’m sure you guys can resonate with this. Our kids go to school more than they’re at home with us, and so in that moment I find myself trying to have a grounding moment and being mindful of what those kids’ lived experiences are. At home did they bring to the independent school?

While I used to be at a boarding school, I think about I love boarding school ’cause for nine months they’re mine. So all those issues with 24 7 things belong to me versus those things necessarily belonging to the parents. So in that moment I like to have open door policy. I like to allow students to lean in as they need to lean in.

I like to allow students to show up as their best selves, knowing that at my particular school with dyslexia they’re struggling with reading and comprehension, so they’re coming to my school to feel whole and not othered as public schools that made their feel in that way. As I think about boarding school.

Those kids are looking for that preferential treatment, that wonderful moment of what boarding school provides that, what independent schools arrive at day school. So I want to create a moment that they can be them best, their best selves, but still know that I’m not their best friend. I love having that boundary where I love kids that can tell me something and I tell every kid as an advisor.

If you tell me anything that’s dangerous or inappropriate, I’m gonna tell them the right person. But I’m always here for you. And there’s been moments where in that mindful moment, the kid forgets and I’m like, we now have to go to the dean of students or the, or whoever. ’cause what you said was dangerous or what you said was inappropriate.

And I’m no longer your mentor. I’m now a school administrator. I like to have that moment to hold kids accountable because they’re growing and I always had to remember that kids are growing and that I used to be them, even though they forget that we used to be them in a way. So for me, I think that it’s so important for us as adults not to get caught up in the the Xs and Os or the ones and twos of what it means to create a school and always be financially sound, always teach towards a rubric.

But to really be mindful that these kids are arriving with so many things. They’re unpacking, they’re watching the same news cycle, we’re watching, they’re eating different food and leaving different neighborhoods that we’re leaving. And it’s important to really say, how am I creating an equitable moment to really see this kid holistically versus I need this kid to understand this curriculum and I don’t appreciate the way they arrive in a class.

And again, that takes a lot to do that for a independent school that’s 400 plus students, but it’s important. 

Tara: Yeah, that’s great. That’s a hard, a hard line to walk, I’m sure sometimes, but admire it. All right, we’re gonna jump into our rapid fire questions now. My favorite one is the first one, which is if you could put one book as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, what would it be?

Jonathan: Oh my goodness. I’m not the most avid reader, but any book that I can put down with some basketball or sports I really loved Kobe Bryant. And there’s a Book of Mama mentality and if there’s a moment where in independent school there’s a moment I’ll give an, an analogy that my former, uh, colleague and former ninth grade dorm parent to talk about.

You know, when you go to private school, you have these gray issue shirts and for your athletics, and there’s a moment of kids don’t believe in sweat equity. Kids basically participate and they don’t break a sweat. If you read Kobe Bryant’s mama mentality book, there’s this sweat equity piece that he was always willing to be the first in the gym and the last, there’s a moment where when kids read an anxiety or thrash point of pain or discomfort, some schools and some teachers immediately are made to stop.

To not allow the kid to have a moment of resilience or growth mindset. When you look at what Kobe Bryant did, I’m not asking you to take your shoulder and put it back in socket or go limp on a torn Achilles or put your finger back in and go shoot the free throw with the left hand. But there’s a moment.

I just want kids that read that a little bit more to see about the growth mindset of knowing that discomfort creates innovation. But if you always stop where you get to that pinch point of, ouch, this hurts. Okay, mom or dad or teacher, I wanna step out. You don’t grow. And I just wanted to say there’s something to that book, but I need there to be the balance of that.

So I hope that that makes sense. 

Aubrey: That’s beautiful. Thank you. What is one app you couldn’t live without? 

Jonathan: To be honest with you, I can’t live without my iPod app or my iPhone. That is intricate to my day-to-day. I find myself listening to a lot of music. I go with like kind of a flow or the same song every day.

Like, uh, bill Withers a lovely day. I play that every morning for my kids to wake up on the home pod, which links to my iPhone or John Legend. Good morning. And so there’s this morning, these moments where my kids hear it and I start singing and dancing. And so that iPod on my app is so critical to setting the tone for when I need to do work, when need to wake up kids cut the grass.

A bad moment, good moment. A mournful moment. It’s the iPod of my app. 

Tara: Love that. I’m a big music person as well. I like to keep it playing all the time too. Yeah. All right. What are you reading right now? 

Jonathan: It’s March Madness right now. I’m a huge basketball person, coached high school basketball for 15 years and coached my son now for four years, for three seasons straight.

And so I’m, I love basketball. So right now I am reading anything on ESPN, on the men’s or women’s side about Juju Watkins going down with her torn ACL, which breaks my heart or thinking about anything athletics. I’m a sports guru, so uh, there are many times when I’m not busy, I’ve read every single basketball app or article.

That’s on ESPN. ’cause that’s my go-to. I am, I’m an ES ESP N person. 

Aubrey: Hmm. Yeah. I love basketball too. We were just watching the Maryland game highlights, uh, this morning, so, 

Jonathan: oh, yeah. Well, the women’s game or the, the women’s game or the, the men’s, I think it was 

Aubrey: the men’s game. 

Jonathan: Okay. The men’s game was great.

The women’s game, the young lady that lost from Alabama, I believe she score 45 points in double overtime to a winning, to a losing game. But I, I love basketball. 

Aubrey: I’ll definitely show, I’m trying to get my daughter into basketball ’cause I love it. So I’ll show her that one as well. 

Jonathan: Please do. She would love that.

Aubrey: Thank you. What is final question, what is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us with? 

Jonathan: I. Is this for adults, students, or which, who’s the audience that this device is going for? 

Aubrey: Whoever. 

Tara: Whoever you feel called to give advice to School leaders. Our audience is school leaders and adults not, I don’t think that many kids listen to it.

Jonathan: Yeah. I would ask those school leaders in the audience to really look at data. Really roll your sleeves up and say, okay, what’s the problem? Or where is the problem? Or either start surveying your, your families to say, okay, let’s survey the families in nutrition. Let’s survey the families that left the visit day.

We have our accepted students, uh, visit day openings. I. Revisit that email those families that you didn’t admit about the process and how equitable the process was. Email your faculty and your teachers about how this goes and do. Uh, we do 90 day interviews here at our school that I’m working with.

We do exit interviews. And in those moments where you do these check-ins, take notes, there’s nothing worse than having a meeting with your boss, with a department chair or whomever, and they don’t take notes. Blatantly state that if you have an exit interview saying, Hey, so and so, I’d like to sit down and take notes and capture your sentiments and takeaways so that I can know to use this and provide it to someone, then in those moments that those notes can get turned into an analytical data points and not just feelings and Val, that validates people.

It lifts them up. And if you do that and slow down, you’ll find that people will really feel heard and seen. ’cause that’s what it’s about. It’s about feeling heard and seen and using data to support all those emotions and all those things that happen. 

Tara: Thank you so much, Jonathan. I’m really, I’m really pleased that you joined us today.

I’m grateful to you for joining us, uh, in this moment especially. And, uh, where can people find you and find out more about what you do online? 

Jonathan: No problem. I am on LinkedIn under Jonathan E. Lee. I have a website for my LLC called Bridging Legacies across campuses. You can look that up and it’ll, that trend will pop up very quickly.

And I ask if you’re a person of color in education, a parent or anyone listening school administrator, feel free to reach out. I highlight bios of Bipoc individuals. I do a podcast of my own as well. And my hope is to continue to elevate the tide of people of color. Which will therefore elevate everyone in that same process.

As we look to just create community, I’m all about building community 

Tara: so much. We’ll put the show note, all of those links in the show notes. 

Jonathan: No problem at all. 

Aubrey: Thank you, Jonathan, for being here today and for sharing your wisdom and voice and journey. 

Jonathan: No problem. Thank you all for the great work you’re all doing, and I’m happy to spread the love on my website and platform, but thank you so much for being dedicated to this process and conversation.

Tara: Thanks a lot Jonathan. Have a great day. 

Jonathan: No problem. You too.