111: The State of School MarCom: Brendan Schneider on Trends, Talent, and AI Tools

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Aubrey: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Bursch. 

Tara: And I’m Tara Clays. Today we’re joined by our friend Brendan Schneider. Brendan is the founder and CEO of Schneider, B Media, where he helps schools grow enrollment through his fractional digital marketing program and school marketing CRM. He’s a leading voice in inbound marketing and the use of AI for schools.

Brendan also started the society, a community just for school marketing and communications pros. Welcome, Brendan. Thanks for joining us again. 

Brendan: Yeah, thanks for having me back. I’m so excited. 

Aubrey: Oh my gosh, we’re so thrilled. Um, just so our audience knows, we talked for about 25 minutes before we set recording on this podcast because Brendan is a joy to talk to and so fun to catch up with him.

So, Brendan, we’re thrilled you’re back on the show. Obviously you’re an amazing guest. So today we’re gonna dive into kind of the results from that Marcom society. So salary survey that you put out. I’m, I’m thrilled to discuss this with the audience and also about your new book. School marketing the right way and ask a few questions about AI because, uh, I always wanna pick your brain about AI and it’s a popular topic for our audience.

Um, so are you kind of ready to get started and dive in today? 

Brendan: Yeah. Lots to cover. Let’s, let’s, uh, get going. 

Aubrey: Let’s do it. All right. So I’m gonna kick off with what’s surprised you the most in this year’s Marcom Society salary survey. 

Brendan: Great, great place to start. A lot of things, um, were interesting to me, but probably the most interesting and maybe depressing was the level of professional development dollars for marcom related roles at school.

So I’m, I’m looking over here. I had to write the numbers down just so I got ’em right, but, but. 22.9% reported between 1,020 $500 of professional development dollars. 19.7% did 500 to a thousand, not great. 14.3% said basically a dollar to 500. So it’s probably like 500 and this is awful. 15.7% said no funding.

They got zero professional development dollars. So if you. Well, it’s a pretty big number for those under a thousand dollars. And then even if you add the thousand to 2,500, it’s not a lot of money for a field that I would argue as compared to other offices in a school. Changes constantly and, and especially with ai, sometimes overnight.

Um, so I, I’m really kind of disheartened by the. Well, I was gonna say the amount, really, the lack of professional development dollars for school. So that was a big, big takeaway for me. 

Tara: Yeah, we talked about this before we recorded, and it is uh, it’s, it’s low hanging fruit, right? It’s not that much to spend to help your people grow.

And especially when you look at, the, when you look at the staffing and that type of thing, for people to have tools that can help them do their job better and more effectively it’s a, it’s an investment. Uh, I think that is, that is overlooked. So if there’s one message we wanna take away from in this episode, I think it’s that investing in in skills that can help your people do better, do more and um, more efficiently.

That’s, that’s a key. So that’s, I think that’s what professional development is all about. 

Aubrey: I think so too, Terry. Yeah, I’m sorry. I, I was just gonna say, but also like, it’s, it’s what we’re, we’re investing in our children, like in our students. And kind of the mission of our schools is to help them grow and learn.

So kind of our mission for our, you know, the people who work at schools should be the same. And it was very disheartening for me to see this because, um, I know how much good professional development I. Can change someone, you know, give them the tools they need to do better in their job. Sometimes it boosts their morale.

And, and really helps them connect with other colleagues too for in-person professional development too. So, yeah, I, I was disheartened to hear this and I, I really hope that schools rethink how they’re spending in this, in this way. Yeah. 

Brendan: Well, and, and the other thing for me, and, and if I extrapolate a little bit and think, pull the lens out, it, it’s just.

And well, I’ll go there. I I, I think it, it speaks to how little schools think about the work that Marco on professionals do. So there’s a lack of professional development dollars. There’s, now, again, I, I, I acknowledge that maybe some schools don’t do that across schools, so maybe there are schools that just don’t invest a lot in professional development, which is a.

Maybe another problem, but a lack of professional development dollars, a lack of budget, a lack of other resources and a lack of people is a common thread that comes out through the survey. And like that’s a huge problem. It’s getting harder and harder to enroll kids and, and if you think of admissions as sales, ’cause that’s what it is.

We’re cutting off our. I dunno, cutting off our arms. What’s the, what’s the, uh, cliche, right? We’re cutting off the marketing arm that leads to the admissions, the sales arm. It just doesn’t seem like a recipe for success. Yeah, 

Aubrey: I’m gonna go there too. Oh, sorry. Go ahead Tara. No, 

Tara: go ahead. Go ahead. 

Aubrey: I’m sorry.

I’m getting so jazz up because you know, before we pressed record, we talked about like Marco home jobs and like the job descriptions associated with them and like I’m thinking professional development. Okay. So if we’re also not providing professional development to people who were trying to lure into these jobs that are mm-hmm.

Very long and hard to do. And so then we might be attracting more kind of, you know, I would say, you know, not as experienced people, but we’re also not providing them with the professional development to help them stay in their position. I think it’s like a cyclical challenge right there. 

Brendan: Yeah. I call it the, the, the vicious circle as opposed to the virtuous circle, right? We’re trying to get, what’s the euphemism? I’m using air quotes here if you’re listening young and hungry. So we’re getting those inexperienced folks who we can pay less. We don’t support ’em. And the, and the measurables and the expectations are like, they’re insane.

And, and that’s, I think that’s only gonna get worse and worse as time goes on. 

Tara: Yeah, agree. I mean, I was gonna talk next about another part of the survey, um, which is the, that it showed a jump in fully onsite roles. And I know I have some clients who have struggled with this too, right? Like coming back after the pandemic when they were really effective and doing their jobs partially, remotely, they live far away.

Mm-hmm. And you know, now being required to come back in full time, how do you think this shift will impact retention and recruitment of marketing professionals? 

Brendan: I think poorly. I think poorly. I mean, I, I do, I do wanna be empathetic to schools where they say that, I mean, maybe it’s empathy, but it’s also maybe antiquated thinking.

The reason a lot of schools, at least the conversations I had, the reason a lot of schools didn’t allow kind of those external affairs folks from working remotely. While they could, was something to do with equity. You know, the faculty need to be there, and if you don’t have the external affairs folks there, that somehow seems unfair.

But my foil to that was also, well, where are they in the summer? Like I don’t. They absolutely need a break. I totally get it. I’ve been in the classroom, I get it. But like they’re getting their break in the summer, but the Marco on folks are there all summer. So why can’t we work remotely? Or, or, I, I still think you know now, and I think you guys are too, working home all the time.

I think if we could get to a hybrid model, some at home, some on campus, that would be kind of catch meow. But I, I think it’s gonna be problematic. ’cause the other issue is that. If you’re only trying to hire from that small group of folks that are within some sort of commuting distance to school, you are really handcuffing yourself.

I don’t have any great answers for that, except maybe be flexible, but love to hear what you guys think. I. 

Aubrey: I, I’m, I will say, you know, I was thinking when you were talking about, um, the reasons why some schools have everyone on campus, like the external folks, right? Yeah. Offices and stuff. One reason is for some of the small schools I work with is because they need more bodies in the building to like on the, like pull for lunch student for, pull for, they just simply do not have enough resources.

So I totally get that. And at the same time. I see the other side of like, how do you attract talent and keep talent? Like how do you, like I’ve been coaching and mentoring several people who are just starting out in the marketing field and they’re in these schools and they’re being overwhelmed by all the expectations of them.

Yeah. And so like, how, how do you attract, you know, experienced people to the job and that you’re requiring so much of? So I, I think it’s a, it’s a tough, a tough thing to think about and definitely maybe it is an outdated model. Like what’s the new model look like? 

Brendan: Boy, that’s a good question. The other thing that was in the survey, and I wasn’t sure if it was on our list, was, um, to chat about was the, uh.

The, I think it was the increased expectation to work nights and weekends, which goes along with this. And look, I, I was in a boarding school for 12 years boarding school, graduate day school for 14 years. You know, I, I was that guy. And, and I know a lot of people are this way in our field. They don’t say no.

So of course we’re gonna do it. Of course you’re gonna do that, but like you do get burnt out. And then the other issue is that. And, and Arbery, the small school thing is an absolutely valid concern, but if, if they’re pulled away to do lunch duty or. Clean up the bathroom or drive the van, whatever. They’re not doing the marketing and, and a lot of small schools will have one person in that role, and I would argue they then do the communications work, which is kind of the now, right?

They’re writing the newsletter, they’re sending the emails, they’re not doing the marketing work. And then again, it’s that vicious circle. They’re not helping to attract more kids, which would increase their enrollment, which would give you some margin to maybe invest back into staff. So. It’s tough.

It’s tough. I’m, I’m not saying it’s easy at all, but it’s tough. 

Tara: Definitely. Yeah, I’m gonna jump around a little bit. Sorry, I don’t wanna throw us off, but I know we’re all like, so, so excited to be talking about this that I wanna kind of bring in your book. Hey, thank you. Uh, and like as you mentioned, like chapter five, right?

It’s about building your team. So I’m gonna hold it up here. School marketing, the right way. Brendan has shared with our community so much great information in this book, and I wanna talk a little bit about that too. Mm-hmm. Um, so. You describe a framework for marketing that’s sustainable and scalable for schools.

I wonder, can you share the biggest mistake you see schools making today in their marketing efforts? 

Brendan: There, there are two things that, that, that I think of Tara. Two things that popped into my head right away. One is, and not to beat a dead horse, but schools are terrible at hiring Marco on folks. And, and I encourage.

And I say this because, and, and I wanna explain a little bit. I, I’ve found that like the HR people at school, or maybe it’s some sort of assistant head, these are incredibly smart people. I’m not trying to belittle. Who they are, it’s just they, they’re not really sure what we do. So I think what schools do is they rely on titles or if you’re an HR professional, I understand, you know, specialist versus manager versus this, because that goes into banding where we’re thinking about salary, but that doesn’t necessarily cover the role that you need done at school.

And or the, the. How that person is gonna be held accountable. Sometimes those things don’t all align. So I think if schools could take a step back, and what I talk about in the book is like there are 14 core competencies. I mean, you could argue there are 10, there are 16, but it’s just a starting point and evaluate what your current team can do.

And then look for a person, like if you have two people, let’s say you’re fortunate to have two people in the role, what does that one person do? Well. What do they not do well? ’cause we’re not all perfect. And then look for the other person to compliment. And don’t worry about a title. Like the, the story I tell in the book is director.

I was talking to a school director of strategic communications and having a conversation with the person who’s incredibly smart. Um, they were gonna evaluate the person on enrollment marketing. But the title was Strategic Communications, which again, is just, you know, people get that confused, so, so I think the hiring and assess what you have.

The other one that I think as non marketers think about this is having the courage to kill sacred cows. So a lot of times people do these marketing things. Things, that’s not a great word. They do these tactics, like we’re gonna, we’re gonna advertise in whatever it’s, or it’s gonna be a print ad, or it’s gonna be a, we’re sponsoring this event and then there’s no way to measure the results.

They can’t track ROI, so to speak, but we still have to do it ’cause everybody’s doing it well you know, I, I don’t like that. If they can think about that. And have the courage to kill that and reinvest it in something else. ’cause that’s what marketing is. I think marketing is about having a thesis or having an idea, trying it.

Measure the best you can and then make a determination. It’s about failure sometimes. And sometimes you fail, but you don’t really fail. You get some data, you iterate, you try it again and, and I think if schools can start to think that way. At, at a like a 30,000 foot level, there’ll be better marketers overall.

Aubrey: That’s so good. I’m so please everyone get the book and read, read this. It’s important. Now, Brendan, like I kind of wanna tie this back a little bit to the survey too, because we didn’t really touch on a topic that I think ties nicely with that, which is like. Many school marketing professionals are still spending most of their time on like that tactical work.

Yeah. Right. From managing social media and emails to handling websites and everything like that. Their plates are so full. Yeah. So why does this imbalance persist, and what steps can schools take to help Marcom teams focus more on strategic priorities? 

Brendan: Yeah, this was something that I struggle with too.

Even now, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s just so many things to do and we have to get stuff done. It’s the immediate that we’re working on the, the things that I would recommend and the things that I would try, and I want to have a caveat here to say I still screw this up all the time and, and I’m not perfect.

Like, so it, you just have to keep working towards it. The first one was, was identify it’s a problem and, and, uh. I do believe what gets scheduled gets done. So I used to have to schedule a time in my calendar to just like, for a while there I was trying to be funny with myself. You know, I, I called it think big thoughts.

So it would be like, stop, like close your email, don’t look at your to-do list. Pull out your marketing plan, pull out your strategic plan and just review that. Even if you did it quarterly, monthly. I mean, that’d be ideal just to assess where you are. And it can help guide you. ’cause I’m, I, and again, I struggle with this, that’s why I’m having a hard time.

I love checking the to-do list former admission director, right? I love to-do lists and, and it gives me joy, like it sincerely gives me joy. The problem is, is sometimes I will just do stuff as opposed to worrying about the big picture, and then I’m not getting where I need to go. I’m getting stuff done and people are happy, but I’m not achieving the goals that I want to achieve.

I mean, I’m doing this in my business now. I actually have a to do and I’m scheduled some time, like I’m gonna go get, so I work from home now I’m gonna get outta my house and go sit down by myself and just think big thoughts about what my goals are to try to get there. ’cause I like, I think about it in school and I probably did this sometimes.

Like you could go the whole year and not move forward in terms of your goals. You got a lot done. You might have had some success, you’re gonna have some failure, but I didn’t necessarily move forward, so, so I hope schools can think about that. I think the other problem is back to what we talked about, we’re just not giving people enough resources.

So they’re doing, you know, they’re spinning 20 plates and some of them are incredibly good at keeping ’em all up, but, but they don’t have time to think big, so.

Tara: Let’s talk about one more part of the survey before we, before we move on. And that’s the, um, continued rise in salaries, but the weekend and evening work and just the amount of work that the span of work that people are expected to do. Can you talk about that a little bit? 

Brendan: We did see, so the survey, this is the third year, so what would that be?

23, 24, 25. We have seen a little increase in salary, and while that might seem like a good, like it is good, it is good, but I just don’t know. The problem is, is that. I, I don’t wanna necessarily give schools a thumbs up because it could be different people answering so different levels. So it’s, it’s hard to say, although I’d much rather see it going up than going down.

Right. The, the other issue, and we kind of hinted at it and to bring it, kind of bring it home, is that big increase in nights and weekend. And again, if you think about. We don’t get that break in the summer, per se. We’re working nights and weekends. I, I just don’t see that ending. Well, and then, you know, I know it, there were a couple times in my career at schools where I’d be at work.

You know, if, if you choose to have a family, you know, you have those commitments, which I wanna do. Like, I’d like to see my wife and I’d like to be with my kids and then have dinner, but then I’d, I’d jump on my laptop again at night. I’d be doing stuff that I didn’t get to during the day and, and that like, I like work, so it, it, it, I enjoy that.

But sometimes, man, it just, it wears you down. And then I think ultimately you do, like, I was getting stuff done, but it was probably not as good as it could have been if I would’ve had some downtime. I don’t know how that’s gonna resolve itself. I, I don’t really necessarily like that trend, but we’ll see.

Aubrey: Yeah. That’s so interesting because it’s also then who’s gonna stay in the positions then? Yeah, if like, oh, I mean, if we’re looking at like what the, even though the salaries are up, I mean. Compared to other fields and industries, they’re not so high. So, so, you know what’s, what is the draw to work at a school, right?

I mean, you clearly have to love working at a school to be in a school. Mm-hmm. I’ve worked at a school. You love the community, you wanna be there, you wanna make a difference, but at what point is that gonna like, wear off? Especially, I’m thinking about future generations too, who might not be willing to stay.

And, and give up their, their nights and weekends for the work. Like where does that put marketing and communications? 

Brendan: Two Aubrey. Great points. Two things. One is, is, um, I mean the, the salaries have gone up, but it’s only a little bit, and the bigger thing is you talk about other industries. Usually what I tell schools is like, you’ll, you’ll see, you might get that young and hungry.

They work for two or three years and they’re really good, and then they bounce to, to another industry and make double 70, you know, they make a lot more money. And they might be able to work from home. S you know, so like all these things happen. And, and the, the other thing is, I think the, the draw to a school used to be.

Well, there’s a lot of reasons why people choose to make this decision. Some of it is like the golden handcuffs, tuition, remission I mean, we were part of that too, so I totally get it. But oh gosh, what was I gonna say? Think I have too many thoughts in my head. I, what was it? Oh, talking about work life balance.

I mean, I think that was the, the thought is that, you know, it’s, um. You’ll have, you can work, but you can also have a personal life and, and I think with Marcom folks, that’s starting to get, well, I think it has been for a while, but we’re starting to acknowledge it. And that’s not necessarily a good trend either.

Aubrey: Yeah, I think that’s so, I am just so interested to see how this pa this continues, like your next mark. We’ll have to have you back again next year to discuss the trends as they continue. But yeah, it is, I mean, talking to a lot of marketing and communication professionals, it’s, it’s hard to watch such talented people being overwhelmed by their role and also feeling like they are not having that quality time with their family ’cause they’re so.

Kind of in, in the job all the time. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Um, I’m curious, I’m gonna swing us, I mean, we’re kind of all over this episodes, but I think it’s fine ’cause our audience enjoys this. There’s 

Tara: so much to talk about, 

Aubrey: so much, I mean, so much, clearly. So I’m curious, Brendan, like. I’m looking at your book and you have so much in there.

You have stuff about blogs, you have stuff about ads, you have stuff about content marketing. You have stuff just about every topic you can imagine for marketing. And I’m thinking like, okay, so if you wanted a school leader to read one chapter of your book or like take one takeaway from your book or one place to start in your book, where would it be?

Because I’m so curious. Like what would be the chapter you’d be like? So start chapter four. Which is creating an effective marketing budget for K through 12 schools. 

Brendan: I, I don’t, that’s like asking me you know, who’s my favorite child? I can’t, I can’t pick. Here’s what I would say the, and I appreciate the question arre, so thank you.

1. It is obviously for Marco on folks. I do hope heads or leaders at schools read it. It it’s meant to be accessible. I was trying to walk the fine line between tactical and strategy, big picture because the tactics are gonna change a lot of the ways I. I do, I do encourage people, I mean, you can read it from front to back, but it, it really does those, I think the chapters kind of stand on their own.

So if, what I would say to give you an answer ’cause I just walked out of an answer, wouldn’t give you one, is look at the chapter and look at the one that’s most pressing to you now. Find the topic that you’re struggling with now and just jump in there. I tried to start every chapter with a story and then talk about it and, and hopefully you can get something out of it, so don’t feel like you have to read it.

You know, one to the end, you could jump in and you could jump around.

Tara: Thank you. Yes, I have done that actually. So of course I went searching in the beginning to see where you talk about websites. ’cause of course that’s where I’m coming from, Sarah. Course. So you do, which I’m glad to see. Yeah. Yeah. Do we wanna move on? Are we’re, we’re, do you wanna move on? 

Aubrey: I, I wanna, I wanna hear from Brendan, so I wanna talk to Brendan for hours, but since we can’t do that.

Yes. ’cause no one’s gonna listen to a five hour podcast. Uh, but I want, Brendan, I always wanna pick your, your, your brain. And So, Tara, do you wanna go to our pick your brain section of, it’s a new segment that we’re adding, adding to this podcast. It’s called Pick Brain. 

Tara: Oh, AI in schools? Yes. Yeah. I mean, ai, woo.

It is like everybody talks about it. Nobody knows how to use it. As well as they can, myself included. But boy, now you wonder how you lived without it. Sometimes when you start using it, uh, and you’re, you know, I, I’ve attended a couple of your sessions on AI and you always introduce some new tool or skill or way to use ai.

To transform marketing, but also just routine tasks. Just, you know, not just marketing related. I’m sure we’ve all used it for, you know, sending an email or maybe even just like, I’ll sometimes have a message to my kids or something and I’ll put it in there and say, make this nicer. 

Brendan: That’s, that’s a good use case.

I like that. That’s a good use case. Yeah. 

Tara: So yeah, so we really appreciate, um, all that you have shared and all that you’ve learned. And I’m sure the amount of time you’ve invested in learning this yourself, but you know, from your perspective, what are the biggest opportunities right now? ’cause it’s gonna change, you know, soon.

Yeah, I’m sure. Um, what are the biggest opportunities that AI offers school marketers specifically right now? 

Brendan: Yeah, and I’m, I’m completely bullish on ai and I’ll, I’ll talk about why, but the first thing I want to do is, um, just share this. So the, the, like, I, there are a couple different talks I do on AI and, and, every time I’ve given the talk in person. So I’ve done some virtual, every time I’ve given it in person, someone has come up to me and this isn’t a lie, quietly by themselves and said, thank you. Long story short, ’cause I was scared. And, and look, I get it, but I, I want people that are listening today, today to understand, please don’t be scared.

There’s nothing to be scared of. It is a tool. Right. This isn’t like the Matrix or Skynet from Terminator. Like it’s not taking over. It’s a tool. And, and I think that’s how we need to think about it. And the reason I’m so bullish on this is we just talked about all these potential not great topics, right?

Like quality, lack of work-life balance, not enough resources. And, and I think that ai, I don’t think I know that ai. Can help mitigate some of those issues. So we’re most likely not getting more staff. You know, we’re not giving, getting more time. People, you know, schools, I say this all the time, schools are notorious for adding things to plates and not removing them.

And AI can absolutely help us get more done. In less time. And that’s why I’m so bullish on it, particularly for school marketers because it, it’s also that’s a great application for it. And I’m not talking about classroom and how we teach our kids. I hope. My only thing as we talk on that tangent, I hope schools don’t stick their head in the sand.

And think it’s not gonna happen or, or whatever. I, we need to think, rethink how we teach, but that’s a different podcast. So, and I’m not the expert there, there are other people that are doing great work with that. But, but for a school marketer, the way I would jump in I use a bunch of different tools, but just go to Chet e Bt I, I don’t get any money for this, but I’m gonna tell you, pay for it.

There are benefits, but even if you don’t want to pay for it, don’t just go and and start to use it. Make sure that you register because by registering it’ll keep your chats, your threads, and, and then it’ll start to, there’s memory now so it’ll remember what you’re doing. So in the one talk that I did for your event, Aubrey, I said, write an email for an open house.

And a lot of times what comes back is an open house for real estate because it doesn’t know about you, you haven’t given it guardrails, you haven’t, you know, used a prompt framework or something. So by registering, at least it’ll start to remember that, oh, you’re a K 12 school marketer, or you’re a K 12 admission professional, or you’re K 12 head of school, and, and that will help it.

Tailor its answers to, to come back to you and then the, so register. Well, don’t be afraid. Register and then think of use cases like look at your to-do list. Start to become AI first. Look at your to-do list and say, what do I have here that I can try to do with ai? And I’ve never, so I’ve never taken anything that AI’s created and just, you know, cut paste.

But I think it gets you 80, 70, 80, 90% of the way there. And then you can tweak and edit and do the work. What an incredible time savings. So I, I think that’s how people need to jump into it. 

Aubrey: That’s fascinating. I’m. I’m also thinking of, you know, what we discussed earlier about the saving the time and energy and doing more, you know, what sort of trends you see on the horizon for AI and how that can impact people in marketing and communications?

Like what, what do you see happening or what do you see on the horizon for how it might help them buy back, get back more of their time back and help with their work? 

Brendan: Wow, there’s just so much. You know, the first thing is just use it. They, they need to use it. You need to use it. I, I think too, I don’t know if you’ve seen a lot of the stuff that I was doing was, was the generative AI text-based, and I wasn’t really, I mean, I’m a geek, you guys know that, but like, I wasn’t really jumping into the image-based stuff, but chat, PT and their four oh model released.

Image creation from text that is over the top. So creating graphics for newsletters or if you need a header for something, you know, you can go to Canva. They’re, they’re now rolling out their AI tools, but like the chat PT thing is. Unbelievable. And then the multimodal stuff. So OpenAI has a model called soa, where you can do text to video OMG, and it’s only gonna get better.

So, you know, if you need B roll for something like I, it’s not gonna create like, you know, give me a video of Aubrey and Tara you know, walking across campus, whatever, you know, wearing this school sweatshirt like. Maybe, maybe someday, but like right now, the way I think about it is that it could give you great B roll for things that you need to do.

But I, I’m really excited about the multimodal stuff. I mean, the tech stuff’s great and it’s getting better. And, and just one of the things just, I’m, I’m jumping all over the place. I’m excited the, within the, within the tool. Pick Che, GPTI. I’m really a fan of Claude, which is another, it’s called large language model.

It’s really good at writing, but they have things called projects. So you can think of it as a folder, like a Google Drive folder, right? It’s a project, but then in the project you can upload documents. So context. So one of the things that I did, just to give you a use case, is I took the, the 23, 24 and 25 salary survey, uploaded those into a project and started talking to it about that survey or talking about the surveys, like tell me the differences between 23, 24, 25.

What trends do you see? I mean, it’s analysis of data is I. Unbeatable it, it talk about saving time. So those are some of the things to start to think about. I’ll stop talking ’cause I’ll go all day on this. Oh, I can go with you. Go ahead. I know 

Aubrey: I’m so interested. I, uh, I was just got off the phone with, um, someone we were working with a survey on and we were working with them on feeding the survey results.

Into chat GPT and asking, having them talk through it. But I also, I also am like, Hey, look at them first. Like, don’t just take chat GP T’s, uh, word for it, but like talk to it. Um, and it’s so intriguing, like what, what the possibilities are. I’m curious because this has come up in a lot of, um, kind of the marketing spaces is like, are we at the tipping point for great gra gra.

Graphic design and kind of something to replace magazines, like something where we can with ai, like are we on the tipping point for that? Like where we could feed it things and then it can create like things as big as school magazines and stuff like that. ’cause that was a hot topic and one of the, um, like marketing sessions I was at.

Brendan: That’s a big question. If, if you made me say something right now, which you are, I would say we’re not there yet. Will we be there in 12 to 24 months maybe. Right. Like, I just know, even thinking of some of my clients, the quality of their alumni magazine. Mm-hmm. Like they’re, they’re really good. Yeah.

Like, if, you know what I mean? They’re really good. And I don’t think AI is there yet. Um, I think it’s like 

Aubrey: got that basic stuff down, but then it would get. There would be so many things that might be thrown off along the way. Yeah, I 

Brendan: mean, could it help you write Abso Could, could it, could it create the puzzle pieces that, that then go to somebody, a human to do it 1000%?

You know, whether that were, that was certain graphics or whether you needed infographics or montages or whatever. Could it help you with the writing? Could it help you with synthesis of stuff? Absolutely. Could it? Could you prompt it in a way to then come with a, A doc? No, not yet. Mm-hmm. Even, you know, I was playing with C Claude trying to make some documents, like Claude actually made a PDF for me that I used handouts I use with talks now.

And it’s, it’s unbelievable. And, you know, it’s, it’s, I can prompt it and you know, give it context, that’s me, but. It just, it just is, it’s, it’s mind blowing. And I think about the hours that I save by using it. So, you know, the big thing, and you guys saw my talk, which was, you know, is AI gonna take my job?

And my answer is, well, not yet, but somebody who knows how to use AI will. Whether that’s next year or five years down the road, it will absolutely happen. So, that’s why I think, you know, school marketers, communication folks, admission folks need to start to pay attention. You have to start to understand what it is.

Tara: I know we could go on and on and on. And we’re actually gonna do an abbreviated rapid fire question with you today, because you’ve been a guest before, and because we’ve filled up time with all this great information. So we’re gonna, we’re gonna dive into rapid fire. Are we all ready for that now? 

Brendan: I’m ready.

Tara: All right. So let’s, let’s just do these two, let’s do, um, what’s one app that you couldn’t live without? 

Brendan: Okay, this is super geeky and, and, and if you ever saw me doing it, it’s weird, but advanced voice mode in chat, GPT is um. Game changer. So here’s what it is and here’s my use case. If you have children, you become an Uber that doesn’t get paid.

So I’m constantly, my son’s in college, but my daughter who’s finishing eighth grade, right, we’re driving around all the time. She won’t let me do this when she’s in the car ’cause she’s embarrassed right in middle school. But I’ll drop her off. And then what I do is I take advanced voice mode and you can actually talk back and forth to the AI and then you can actually interrupt it.

Um, if it’s going on the wrong path. It’s talk about that strategy piece that we were, you know, going over earlier. That’s where I’ll do a lot of that happening. I’m in the car. Look, I’m not interacting with the device. My hands are on the wheel and I’m looking forward, right? I’m not using my phone, but I can talk to it and it’s amazing.

Gives me ideas, helps me get things out of my head, and then when I get back to the computer or I’ve stopped the car it, there’s a transcript of everything. So I have that. So that’s been a game changer for me. That’s the app that I couldn’t live without. That’s awesome. I 

Tara: wanna, oh, I, I was gonna mention this one last thing.

Sorry. I know we’re going all over the place. Have you used the Monday GPT yet? It’s called Monday. No. Is that part of the, um, it’s just, it’s one of the GPTs, it’s sassy. It is like, oh, I love that. Go into Monday and type in like, what can you help me with? And the answer that it gives you will make you laugh so hard.

Yes. Go, go for it. 

Brendan: I’m in. I’m gonna do it as soon as we’re done. Yeah, I can’t wait.

Aubrey: Oh my gosh. You guys cracked me up. So, um, I think the second, so that was one app and our second wrap fire is, what are you reading right now? 

Brendan: And this is always a struggle for me. You guys know that I like reading. So I’m reading two books right now. So the first is, what’s it called? I am Pilgrim.

It’s my fiction book. It’s a thriller. I love spy stuff. Right. You know, I do like, I’m sorry, people dying it, you know, it’s my, it’s my beach read. Right. I love that stuff. So I am, I am a Pilgrim Terry Hayes. And then the nonfiction book, it’s actually, so in the Marcom Society we have a, we have a book club and somebody recommended this, I dunno if you guys have read it, the um, six Types of Working Genius by Patrick Lencioni.

So I’ve never read it. I haven’t read it. You have? Yeah. And like it’s been on my list. Yeah. 

Tara: Miriam’s, yeah. Miriam does the, she does the working genius. Yeah. Yeah. It’s really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Brendan: So I’m, uh, I’m actually listening to that one and uh, so I’m excited about that. 

Tara: Awesome. Well, Brendan, thank you so much for joining us today.

You wanna mention one more time where people can find you and your book online? 

Brendan: Yeah, the best place is just Schneider b.com. Just go there and, and the book and all this stuff. And then, and then we were talking about it before. I do have a free newsletter, school Marketing Insider, and, and you can jump on the newsletter.

As Arbery had said, every Monday I. Every Monday morning, goes, goes out. 

Aubrey: I know. I, I love his newsletter. I’m not gonna lie. Love it. 

Brendan: Love it. 

Tara: And the audio book 

Brendan: is coming 

Tara: out, 

Brendan: right? I 

Aubrey: know, right? It means 

Brendan: I, yeah, I just, I record it myself and I was sharing, that was a lot harder than I thought. Uh, but that’ll be, that’s with the, um, audio engineers, I guess.

And then hopefully that’ll be out soon. 

Aubrey: So exciting. So many great things. Happy. Thank you Brendan, again for being a repeat guest. We love having you on the show. 

Brendan: Thanks so much. Thank you guys. This was so much fun. We could have gone on for at least another hour, but I know, I know. We’ll save the audience.

Tara: Thanks. 

Brendan: Alrighty. Bye-bye. Take 

Tara: care. Bye