120. Running a School in the Crisis Era: Messaging, Mission, and Survival in the Fourth Turning with Jesse Meadow

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Tara: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Burch. I’m Tara Clays. Today we’re joined by Jesse Meadow. Jesse is a co-founder and managing director of Schoolcraft Digital. He’s a proud girl, dad and lucky husband, Schoolcraft Digital works with independent schools across the country in planning, strategizing, and implementing holistic marketing strategies that resonate with the parents of today.

Welcome, Jesse. We’re [00:01:00] really looking forward to this conversation today. 

Jesse: Hey, thank you so much for having me. I’m glad to be on for, I guess, round two now. This is, uh, second time on, so I really appreciate it. Totally different topic this time. 

Aubrey: It is, but it’s gonna be a good one. I, I mean, we’re really excited to have you back on the show.

Um, I, I will tell you that I know I’ve been personally so excited to record this episode. I reached out to you because I was like, after reading your blogs, which are fabulous, for those who have you know. I read them. Um, I, I, and I really wanted to talk about this topic that you wrote about. And, uh, but before we dive in, uh, I wanna set the stage for our, for our listeners, like this conversation is, uh, actually based on Jesse’s blog post that we’re based on this concept.

It’s the fourth turning. It’s been a book. It’s been a lot of different things. Um, and it’s a big concept and it might look like it’s outside the traditional bounds of school marketing. However. Um, it really is kind of a lens for understanding generational cycles leadership and change in education, and that’s kind of what Jesse’s blogs hinted at.

[00:02:00] So, Jesse, for listeners who might not be familiar with this concept and this topic, can you start by explaining what the four turnings are and where we are in that cycle right now? 

Jesse: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So essentially the fourth turnings are kind of a historical view of kind of cycles of history.

And specifically with this book it’s focusing on, you know, the Anglo-American, so you know, a little bit pre America for English, and then over into, uh, the American cycles. And it really focuses on, you know, an 80 to roughly a hundred year time periods. That are defined by commonalities and they, they seem to repeat themselves.

And mainly because as the theory holds, it’s because of the generational archetypes that are built inside of those meaning you know, your life experiences make you. This type of thinker. And so when you get into parts of power, you implement that sort of perception of life and then that [00:03:00] has repercussions for the younger generation and so on and so forth.

And it just kind of keeps cycling through. So that would be, you know, the very broad level understanding of it. I would say, you know, where we are right now is the crisis area, and that’s you know, we’re, we’re getting a little bit what they’re calling the millennial crisis era, and we’re kind of in the middle towards the end of what that, what that’s gonna look like.

Uh, so, you know, that’s kind of where we are today. But, you know, it, it has really, uh, humbled me and, and, and calmed me down. Oddly enough with, with kind of where we are today, what we’re seeing today, and, and making sense of all of it. Like, how did we get here? And you know, your, my parents, my parents have been saying that for, uh, maybe my whole life, you know?

Oh, it’s just not, not like back in the day or not like when I was a kid or this, this, and this. So, you know. A lot of those generational things were big questions for me. And this book kind of framing it as different generations that, uh, make their impact at different times in their life [00:04:00] creates those different, uh, turnings.

Tara: So interesting. I, On a personal level, we all wanna think about this and identify this concept, but let’s talk, let’s what drew you to applying this forth, turning thinking to independent schools in the first place? 

Jesse: Whew. Yeah, so that’s a, a, a very long process, uh, that wasn’t very direct.

It’s become a little bit more trained, um, as I’ve gotten older. But I, I do tend to. Look for answers in books. Not everyone does that. Uh, but if I’m trying to solve a problem, usually there’s a book written about it that at least sparks my mind to start manifesting. Um, whatever that solution may be or understanding, you know, it originally started with the first book called The Fourth Turning.

And you know, that was, uh, a lot more on the generational side of things and how that kinda shaped those turnings. And oddly enough, you know, the universe works in. In, in odd ways. I ended up getting this book and, [00:05:00] and finishing it, uh, about three to four weeks before they released the second one. And mind you, this was, you know, decades apart.

So, it was very weird timing. I took it as such and I dove right in as if the universe was telling me. You need to learn more. But as anything, and again where I was talking about a little bit more of a training, like, okay I learned this, it’s helpful for me. I have a much better understanding about these things.

I’m looking at the future in different ways and applying my perceptions of it. What does this mean for, how does this help? And, you know, my line of work, obviously I wanted to apply it with the folks that I’m involved with most, uh, every day with, you know, clients, uh, different blogs, different things, you know, our little audience community.

So this is kind of where I was like, you know. I know it doesn’t talk about schools specifically, but institutions are a big, big piece of, of either the highs or the lows inside of this. And normally they talk a little bit [00:06:00] more on like a government level, but this could be also church but schools or institutions.

And then you get the thinking in my head, okay, well my alma mater was. Founded in 1912. There’s lots and lots of schools with hundreds of years of history. How did they get through it? Because clearly they did go through this cycle already. So, you know, what were some things and then that began the rabbit hole of where we’ve come with, with the blog series.

So, you know, a little bit more of personal, selfish interest, uh, that turned into, okay, how can I use this in, in some productive way? And, uh, question after question about, oh, well this could relate to schools in a, in a lot of different ways because it really is more of a sentiment of, of the environment around you or, or the, the population, which in turn is marketing.

How are you gonna market to these folks where this is who we’re talking to? Um, so what is driving that kind of decision making? And then from there, it kind of took off into some interesting, uh, rabbit holes. 

Aubrey: It’s fascinating. I really enjoyed those blogs and I mean, uh, we [00:07:00] mentioned kind of the, the cycles, which are the four turning.

So like there’s that high, which is like that post-crisis air, the awakening, the unraveling where it trust an institution fades. And then we’re in this, this period of crisis, right. Um, which started around 2007, 2008. Right. And uh, it’s considered like. You know, obviously a really, uh, volatile phase. So, you know, as we’re looking and applying it to schools, and as you wrote so eloquently in your blog, you know, what can schools expect in this air of crisis especially in the next 12 to 24 months.

Like, let’s look at the cycles. Let’s take what we learned from them and then apply it to schools. So can you, um, kind of talk a little bit about that? 

Jesse: Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say. S unfortunately, schools need to plan for this. Uncertainty and volatility to be normal. Waiting for the, the normal to come back is, is [00:08:00] not really the recipe for this era.

You know, that’s, that’s hopeful thinking. Uh, we could all have that kind of approach, but at the same time, there needs to be plans and actions. Um, taken during this time period that are built because it’s going to be volatile, because you’re not going to know which leg is gonna drop next, uh, and, and what to expect here.

So, um, and there’s some things you can do a, a lot on perfectly times. Uh, it’s, it’s mostly a lot of mindful things that you could be doing here to, to kind of weather this storm. So. I would say depending, you know, it’s gonna be very region dependent, so, you know, some areas we’ll see. No problems at all.

Well, let me rephrase that. No problems with enrollment at all. Um, they’ll definitely be the, the politicization and, and the polarization still happening everywhere. Um, financial stressors are going to be happening everywhere. No matter, no matter where the school may be. Um, but other schools may have migration issues [00:09:00] you know, either plus or minus.

So there’s gonna be, you know, different, um, different things happening in different regions. I would say it’d be more regional. Um, but generally speaking, you know, preparing for that site, this cycle to be longer than a few years it’s not going to get better yet. And you need to have kind of a plan in place to address that unease uncertainty so that you can become, and kind of what my blog talks a lot about with clarity and, and being mission focused is you’re kind of the, the, the calm.

Storm, um, you know, you’re, you’re the one that is becoming, Hey, this is who we are, this is what we’re doing, this is what we provide. This is the outcomes. You’re that safe haven. And you can see that already starting to come even in the places that are having booming enrollment right now. Um, you, you can still see that transition and messaging happening.

So I, I would say, you know, at the top level depends on your region. Um, but definitely [00:10:00] plan for, for a lot more. Um. UNE and, uh, it’s not going to go away, so don’t plan for normal. Um, that’s, that’s behind us now. Gosh, that sounds so pessimistic when I say it out loud like that, but it, I’m, I’m very hopeful about everything.

Tara: Thank you for the hope. I’ve heard hope and determination are a good combination right now. So looking at economic signals like birth rates, consumer debt, inflation, job volatility, those types of things. If a head of school could only track three monthly indicators, like in a one page dashboard, three things, what would you pick and why?

Jesse: For sure I would say your local economic indicators, county unemployment rates would be good, especially ’cause county is, is broader than a city, which is usually, um. Your driving distance is usually not just, uh, you know, just the city. It might be out into the outskirts. So like what is your local environment, uh, unemployment rate?

’cause that’s gonna be a huge driver on, on ability to [00:11:00] pay. So I would say that general. On a national scale, if you can get localized, great. But typically the, the CPI, so the consumer price index, so are, are folks still spending money? I mean we’re a complete society built off of frivolous spending.

If that stops, the trickle down from that is, is gonna be all over the place. So, you know, I would definitely focus on. You know, what is the unemployment rate in, in my particular region or coward county? And then generally speaking, you know, are consumers still spending is is there a tightening of the purse, um, or.

Is it still, everyone’s talking about tightening the purse, but we’re still seeing indicators that everyone’s spending on Amazon, um, and on, you know, all of these big ticket items. ’cause at the end of the day, you know, uh, school, private school is a, it’s a luxury item. Um, it’s, it’s a choice the families need to make.

And, you know, we can debate all day on the importance of that [00:12:00] choice, but. It is, I’m sure many of your listeners have seen quite a few families pull back because of money issues while still having the three cars in the, in the mansion. Um, and you just, you know, smack your head on, on where are your priorities here?

Uh, so generally speaking, just making sure that folks are still spending is, is a great indicator. And then, to be honest with you, I would say, uh, an the, the other piece that I would throw onto that it’s, it’s not exactly an economic. Metric, but tracking your. Inquiries to tours, tour to applications that’s gonna be key because this will be the big differentiator on if it’s, uh, if your messaging is working well.

So, for example, if your unemployment rate is going down or is, is not where it used to be or, or not going great. CPI, you know, consumers are showing a tightening of the purse. But your inquiries are still getting, you know, populated [00:13:00] and going into tours. And then when they actually get on campus, they speak, they see, they feel what’s happening in that environment.

And what you guys are doing, they’re leading to applications. You know, that that is an offset of what the economics is happening around you. You are clearly communicating to the, the population around you and to the parents around you. And they’re giving you that trust and making hard decisions to still go in that direction.

And if it’s not, and you’re kind of in line with everything else. Okay. That’s where it’s come back to the table. What do we need to switch here? So without knowing that you’re not gonna need to, you’re not gonna really have good data on whether to pivot or not. So I would say, you know, that, that countywide or the most regional, you can get unemployment rate, consumer price index, and then increase the tour towards the applications.

If all of those things are, are tracked you should have a, a pretty good picture on kind of how to navigate the, the day to day at least. 

Aubrey: That’s fascinating. I’m, I’m so glad you brought up data, because a lot of times when [00:14:00] I’m working with schools, there’s a lot of feel, I feel like I feel this or we’ve heard this or, but like having potential data to track can really help start those conversations and steer them in a productive way where you’re taking action and, and looking and seeing what’s working and what’s not.

I’m curious, like, so, you know. Now we have some ideas. So let’s say you have these ideas, you were tracking things. What, what do we do if we’re looking ahead? Like what are, what are the things during this crisis era that schools can kind of implement? And you talk about them in your blog, the five principles, anchors.

Mm-hmm. Um, that would help you help a school kind of be able to, to weather this crisis air and, and to. Still be here after it. Right. So you had mission over marketing, community over competition, clarity over complexity, data over drama. And I’m assuming data over drama is similar to what we just discussed, but mm-hmm.

Adaption over assumptions. So, um, [00:15:00] I’m curious if you could kind of reflect on those and talk about like where are schools underestimating the most and what is the first step for them to take in kind of. Both understanding these things and imple and, um, implementing them. And if you have examples, please let us know.

Jesse: Sure, sure. You know, I would say the clarity over, over complexity, I think is, is probably the most underestimated. And I also think in practicing. Boiling things down you will get to adaptations over assumptions, mission over marketing. So, and, and what that really means is I’ll give you a good example.

My, my alma mater. Has amazing programs. I mean, when I went to school there, it was quite a traditional boarding school. It grew while I was there. Now my diploma from there looks amazing and, uh, keep on keeping on, but they have so much to offer. Uh, and I mean, you know, and in many schools have this, they have.

You know, this unique athletic [00:16:00] program where they have this arts program and they may have, you know, spec, uh, a, a, a choir or theater or orchestra inside of that arts program. And, you know, then they have soccer or basketball and, you know, uh, tennis, swimming, all of hockey for, for, for folks that I’m from Florida, so we don’t have too much hockey down here, but you know.

All of those things can be standalone pushes. They’re amazing. Um, they have great results, but it’s very complex. You’re, you’re, you’re throwing too much at the, the parents of today. So clarifying what that is is, is really the best way to move forward with that and, and what we do. And that’s really helped a lot in this process when we kind of build strategies and, and the messaging for.

Our campaigns with our clients, but I, it would, it would apply anywhere is, you know, we really try to reach for a mission appropriate. Theme or tagline. And this would be something that hopefully would be multi-year, but at least, uh, a full year where you [00:17:00] kind of throw everything under this bucket. But it’s a still a clear singular message.

You know, we, we, we have a school client in Hawaii. You know, uniquely it’s a place to learn like nowhere else. This is everything can fall under this type of mission. You know, my alma mater, it’s who we are. So yeah, they have 20 different things to, to, to promote and then, you know, a hundred different things in each one of those to talk about.

But it all gets clarity and where that really comes into play, which I think is a very. Misunderstood pro. Part of this process is we’d like to think about the clarity over complexity with external, which is absolutely the case. We are talking externally to prospective families, but more importantly, and this, you know, kind of goes on to the calming in the leadership roles, is the clarity’s really good for internal as well.

Everyone’s gonna have opinions about whatever’s happening different times. Redirecting the staff, the [00:18:00] teachers, everyone on campus that it is, this is the mission. This is what we’re doing. This is the, the core driver. This is who we are. This is a place to learn like nowhere else. You know, those types of easy to understand kind of themes and taglines.

Can, can be the lens and the filter in which everyone talks and thinks. So when you have a tour, everyone knows, uh, the entire campus is the admissions department. Every person in interaction that they meet with, especially if you’re doing like school visit days, where they’re gonna be going into classes, uh, do you have that alignment, you know.

Within your internal community, much less what you’re promoting externally. So I would say that clarity piece would really, starting that process would really kind of boil things down. And then it gets you to focus on who you are, what you do, and what part of that is going to resonate with the, you know, the personalities and the parents of today

know. That was kind of a rambling, thank you. It’s a [00:19:00] lot. Yeah. No, 

Tara: it’s okay. It’s a lot. It’s a lot to take in. Let’s talk about the COVID boom. 

Jesse: Hmm. 

Tara: So why some schools surged while others stalled? You referenced this earlier, right? So largely due to migration patterns or public school policies. You know, what did the fast growers actually do different during that time?

That is repeatable now. 

Jesse: I would say, you know, migration patterns, absolutely. Were, were drivers of either loss. Uh, if you were, if you saw losses, mostly in, in urban areas, you know, like, uh, downtown schools, things like that. A lot of people moved away into the suburbs where you saw booms in, in rural areas because they could with remote work.

And that still kind of holds a little bit true today because remote work is still here, not as as much, but it’s, it’s still here. I think tactically and strategically, the ones that had influxes [00:20:00] miscommunication with the public school systems around them, really implemented strategies that could be still used today.

And that was along the same message of the, the clarity. They, they had a plan, they spoke to that plan, they were open, they, they spoke to the, you know, and that’s not. Always the public school’s faults, they have to have regulations from legislation on whether to be open or closed. But having that sort of back and forth, they weren’t ready to not be open in a lot of places.

You know, they were literal pockets of, of, of generations of kids, or years of kids where they were just lost because they weren’t learning. They didn’t have all the digital infrastructure to be able to have those lessons at home. So the schools that saw that coming. Either already had iPads for everyone or some sort of digital curriculum going on.

All they needed to do was kind of ramp that up. They talked about that messaging when they did come back to campus if, if they [00:21:00] were able to, we spoke a lot about what were the morning routines with the custodian staff, how they Lysol everything, how, you know, mask wearing and you know, whether you, like, it wasn’t so much if you agreed or not, it was more of you were communicating the safety measures that were being taken so that we could get back to as much of normal as possible.

That really hit home for a lot of folks, uh, especially near those places where. You know, the public schools weren’t open, or when they were, it was a lot of disarray and, you know, they felt that their kids were getting lost. And you know, this kind of talks to it a little bit, but the generation of parents today, they have a lot on their plate.

I’m, I’m not gonna get on a soapbox about how my life is so tough compared to my parents, but my life is so tough compared to my, I’ll just jump by. There’s a lot to deal with. We’ve grown up in a crisis. We’ve gone from one crisis to another, and I only say that is because I [00:22:00] know my parents’ involvement with school when I was a kid.

Compared to what I would like to be involved with, with my daughters in their school. It’s not, I just don’t have that possibility. I don’t have that time. I, I have to focus on, you know, work or, you know, and I’m in a great situation. I’m, I’m, I’m very much blessed your average folk. It’s gonna be very difficult for them to be as involved with the school.

As they used to be because there’s so many other things that are necessitating their bandwidth and their tension. So everything has to kind of be, you know, boxed into little corners knowing that your child or children are in a place that is taking care of it. Is such a sense of security that I think if you message that well, it resonated well.

I still think that would apply today. I don’t think any of those, you know, we might be in fear, we might not be in fear of a virus so much, but we are still [00:23:00] in fear of uncertainty of, I mean, down here in Florida, literally what you are learning in class with the book. So, you know, making sure that you are messaging.

Your position in a, you know, neutral way. But just so that the parents have that sense of security and, and, and they can feel that trust, it’s really all about that trusting relationship. If they can trust that you are there and you’re, you’re marketing yourselves and you’re putting your external communications.

In a way that is building that trust, uh, you will do well. And I think you saw that a lot with the, the public, uh, versus private or charter during the, the COVID time. 

Aubrey: That’s so interesting. I, I just gave a presentation in Chicago not too long ago and we were talking about communication and how important it is and like the that, that parents are overwhelmed right now.

They’re so overwhelmed. So how are we reassuring them both like the parents that are already at your school and the ones considering your school, that their children are going to be okay, like. [00:24:00] The values alignment, everything is, they’re gonna be okay. And they’re in good hands, right? That’s right. Um, so I, I think that’s super important.

I, I really appreciate what you said about that. I’d definitely wanna talk to you. About affordability because this is a hot topic all round. Not, not just like, uh, you know, we all, um, you know, if we think back to 2008, I remember working in a school and dealing with that. Right. That was, that was a tough one.

Uh, if we think back to, even during COVID times when, you know, there was a lot of uncertainty and everything like that, you know, affordability is important and it sounds like during this crisis, air. It’s something that we kind of need to consider. Um, as you mentioned in your in your blog here you talked about, you know, building financial flexibility.

So could you talk a little bit about like what schools might wanna consider, um, whether it’s index sliding skill tuition, like what, what should they be looking at? Like, or what should they be embracing? What should they be like, you know, stepping [00:25:00] away from, and, and what should they be considering today?

And how can they message these things without kind of undermining like their value of who they are. 

Jesse: Yeah, I mean, that’s a very, I, I wish I had the, the silver bullet for that. But it, it does vary and it’s always going to be, there’s so many variables involved in whether that’s which path to take if’s difficult to have an overarching answer for that.

I, I, I would say. As generally as possible each school would definitely have to look at the variables taken in. Some schools are not having you know, an enrollment problem or an attrition problem or you know, some of those things. So, you know, a sliding scale wouldn’t make sense. For a school like this, where in other areas it may make perfect sense because listen, we have to meet our, our, our population in some way, uh, no fault of their own.

It’s where they live. It’s migration patterns. It’s, there’s a, again, so many different [00:26:00] factors driving, uh, a lot of those variables. You’re gonna have to kind of look at it on a case by case basis. I would say messaging, anything. I, I believe firmly, uh, I’ve always believed this, and I think it’s more relative today than, than ever.

You know, get away from you know, affordability is not that bad, but there’s better ways to state it. Being accessible, accessibility is a great. Term to use in, in place of that. Um, but the other part that I would focus on too is, and this kind of goes along with the clarity and it, it would help message that in, in totality is mission fit.

Mission, mission appropriate students, you know, accessibility for right fit students. You know, not just financial aid. For the sake of financial aid. So again, in, in some schools it might make sense to have, uh, a financial aid budget of X and it’s gonna go to whatever need-based you have. If you don’t have enrollment problems, perfect.

Uh, if [00:27:00] you do have enrollment issues, that might not be the right model because you’re, you, you might be turning people away where you could adapt your, your, your financial aid structure to be able to meet some of those families. I, I think to wave or, or to weather some of these especially when you’re trying to build that community feel I’ve really liked having, um, a kind of retention first financial aid approach.

Um, so it’s not just a chunk and then it kind of goes out to everyone. It’s. You know, however you wanna set that up. But, you know, I’ve seen it done where, you know, the, the current students have first crack, essentially. Um, they’re gonna be the ones, you wanna retain those students more than you want to get new students with financial aid.

So, you know, having a a, a very retention focused financial aid system, I think no matter what the situation may be, is only going to. Further build that trust, the community, the relationships. And everyone knows, you know, like I’m in digital marketing I’m all [00:28:00] about outreach brand awareness, getting out there in new ways, finding new families, but word of mouth is not gonna go anywhere.

Um, this is a very emotional driven decision. They’re going to talk with friends, they’re going to talk to other people in their community. So making sure that, you know, you’re doing what you can to, to, to make your institution have that good light. These are those little things that you could be doing, um, across all stages.

And I, I think a retention, um, focused financial aid, uh, and kind of changing thing to, you know, right fit. Student accessibility and kind of focusing more on this could, could lead to whatever your goal may be, whether it’s just to diversify your economic population in your school. You know, there’s a lot of different reasons that schools will kind of look to, to implement something.

I, I would stay away from discounts or anything that kind of feels that way. Especially because. Emotions are high right now. [00:29:00] And, and not too rational. So, you know, don’t you wanna minimize the, the perception a family may have on why. This kid got money or family got money, I didn’t get money. And this got, now we’ve started, you know, drama and, you know, again, go back to the data, not, not the drama, and kind of focus on that.

I think that if you were to kind of focus it more on right fit accessibility, you kind of eliminate a lot of that talk. Um, and you have something to come back on as, as short of proof of, of your intentions. 

Aubrey: This is really interesting. I’m so glad you talked about this. I’m curious and um. It’s more of kind of a reflection of what I’m saying I’m in the metro DC area.

So, um, a lot of the schools that we work with here are, and I, I would say nationwide, also other schools I’m working with, it’s like, uh, parents are having trouble with job security right now. Um, current families of the school. So your retention first aspect, and I’m, I’m assuming that would apply to that.

Like how do we keep the families [00:30:00] that we love, like, and we want. If they’re like having trouble searching for a job, like do we, can we help them stay here while they get their footing? Because that like lasting connection and lasting support and building of community actually will serve us in the long run.

Not only because we want these families here, obviously. But I’m curious, like, is that the kind of the lens you were going through with like the retention first piece? 

Jesse: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, in your area, oh my gosh, I, I couldn’t imagine. We have, we have a school in your area and they deal with this.

It’s if you’ve got government employees right now, 

Aubrey: yeah. It’s hard 

Jesse: week to week. All right, lemme rephrase. It’s not even 

Tara: just government now. It’s 

Aubrey: Yeah. It’s the whole area. 

Jesse: Everyone, everyone’s getting just AI coming in. Yeah. You know, some positions are more vulnerable than others, but, you know, every industry may have a different focus on a different aspect of, of their, of their tech stack.

And then, you know, it might be [00:31:00] replacing here or. Even if not replacing downgrading as long as there’s money lo income lost, or the ability to afford lost, uh, you’re gonna run into that issue. And absolutely, that’s exactly what it is. I wouldn’t say that, you know, it should be something that is, you know, third grader and then you continue year to year for the next decade.

Um, but there are to say that there’s not moments or years where you could be implementing listen. When I worked at a school, we were big on school culture. It was huge. It’s, it’s, it’s imperative how the kids are, are interacting with each other, how, um, the relationships are built with the teachers so that they can have that cohesive, you know, classroom structure, coaches, teams, I mean, it, it gets into having the right fit students gets into every aspect of what you do.

And then when they graduate. The alumni that they become, the appreciation that they have and the view of independent schools keeps things rolling. I mean, I know that’s a very long way of [00:32:00] thinking about it, but you know, this is the type of thing that, it’s the little things that you do now on more of a consistent basis with clarity that is gonna build longer term.

The, the infrastructure and, and the give back structure, uh, that, that will keep you kind of aligned and, and moving forward, uh, into the future. At least that’s, that’s what I’ve seen in, in what I believe on that.

Tara: I, um, I know we’re, we’re going on, so I’m gonna try to wrap this up, but I, I’m gonna come back to the idea of hope that you mentioned. ’cause I think that’s a word that’s used a lot and it’s hard, it’s a hard word to to actually, I think, implement on a. Pretty consistent basis right now for many people.

As for the reasons that we’ve talked about here, and you know, this whole fourth turning, bringing it back to that concept, that, that philosophy, uh, can you talk to us a little bit, wrap up with an idea of. Why this has given you hope. And [00:33:00] also tying in our mindfulness from that, we like to talk about, you know, how mindfulness applies to the idea of hope and, and sort of these different generations and eras in that occur, uh mm-hmm.

In our society. 

Jesse: No, it’s, it’s, it’s very difficult. I, I would say for me. Where I found hope is one uncertainty and, and unknowns can create a lot of havoc, especially if you are an internal thinker. I’m an internal thinker. I think while I’m talking, while I’m listening, while I’m reading, while it doesn’t, I’m always in thought.

And that is a nightmare. If, if you, don’t really know, and you just have to go through all of the scenarios to try to get to, uh, some sort of understanding. So to, to come to a historical view of seeing examples of how we’ve been here before. You know, how the, the twenties and thirties were, you know, [00:34:00] technically or technology wise, not the same, but, but feeling sentiment.

Um. Unraveling of institutional trust, polarization, you know, all of these things that are just like, how could this be happening? What are we gonna do? Where, where are we gonna be? These things have happened. And the book talks about it for, on the Anglo-American side, you know, five times already. So you can point back to these eras and see that they live through moments like this as well.

So that, that kind of clarity and it, it, it gave me some calm on the generational piece. Uh, what kind of gave me a little bit of a, you know, uh, like a umph and, and some confidence is, you know. My generation being, you know, the millennial generation, elder, millennial, gen XA little bit too, um, we’re the crisis generation, you know, I was what, 14, 15, 9 11 happened you know, one after another, after another, after another.

And, and here we are continuing now. It’s even quicker. Like things are happening a lot sooner. There, there, [00:35:00] my, my entire life has been managing and, and trying to figure out. How to, how to live in crisis mode. And where that’s was frustrating. When you look at this in the lens of, you know, our topic here, you know, we’re the GI generation, so we’re, we’re the, we’re the hero generation, if you will.

Um, so these were the, the World War II GI soldiers, like they were called upon to do the grunt. To, to be to take on the load essentially, you know, we’re the donkey, bringing, bringing everything. And through that you can understand, hey, I have, and, and you know, maybe this goes to more of a spiritual thing, but it kind of gave me a sense of purpose in that yes, this is tough.

Yes, I am not growing up or experiencing my young children. And, and their time and my time the same way when I was their age with my parents and everything. That was a. You know, you could have two cars and this, and everything was, was kind [00:36:00] of there for you. It’s tough now. It’s, it’s, there’s, there’s much more limited and, you know, where that used to be a frustration.

I, I start to wear a little bit more of a badge you know, a little bit more of an identity like, uh, hey, this is, this is my role in, in moving. My kids, us generally, I just have to do my part and I’m technically built for this, uh, because. I don’t know anything else. And that’s kind of what goes on the, the topics of the generations and how they influence, uh, different turnings is this is their experience.

They don’t know any different. So that kind of helped me give some calm and some hope. Um, especially when you know that these cycles turn, there will be a turn, there will be a high, it’s it, the inevitability of these things kind of makes it a little bit more calming. And I would say for the schools themselves.

You know, I, I thought about this, uh, a little bit, and it, I don’t wanna get religious, but if a school leader [00:37:00] would think a little bit like a pastor or, or, you know, like a Mass Noe Catholic, uh, you know, when you go there, they talk about topics that are happening. Now, obviously, you want to, you want to relate to what’s, what’s happening now, but it comes to revert back to.

What the scripture says in this case, who we are as an institution and how we are gonna be able to navigate that. Those can be calming messages. Again, I don’t, you don’t need to be religious about it. You can be, but essentially. Your staff are gonna be just as influenced of what is happening around you as the students are gonna be.

And nowadays, with the digital, the students are involved in way more politics than my generation was at their age. So they’re bringing that into the classroom and then the teachers have to manage it with their own you know, personal, uh, opinions about what’s going on. There’s a lot of levels of uncertainty, emotions going on.

So having those moments where you can kind of bring [00:38:00] everyone together, talk about what’s happening, and then give that leadership calm, like, Hey, we’ve been here before. This will turn out. I can’t speak to outside these walls, but inside these walls we know X, Y, Z. And refocus. Refocus. And I would say, you know, it’s definitely.

Something that should not be random. Having a cadence to it will add to the calming effect. So whether it’s weekly, whether it’s monthly, whether it’s, whatever it may be, it could be just the administration, the, you know, the admin team or the executive team. It could be a school-wide thing, whatever that, that approach is for you, having those sort of, kind of updates, you know, what we like to say is like, you know, pause, um.

Pause, plan and execute. So it’s pause, hold on, look at the data, and then make the plan to kind of execute it. Have those moments on a regular cadence. It’s expected, we know we’re gonna talk about it. You don’t have to get all hyped up on [00:39:00] Tuesday because, hey, I know on Friday we’re gonna bring this up. I’m gonna write it down and, and we’re gonna talk there.

So it kind of keeps the emotions on more of a consistent level. And then again. Bringing it always back to the focus of whatever that clear message is and how you as an institution are going to implement that. I, I think, would be a very hopeful and, and calming way to at least go about your day you know, or week inside of, of of the school.

And like we talked about earlier, that extrapolates into every tour that comes on campus, every marketing piece that goes out. Like if, if your internal community is on that same page. It’s only gonna showcase on the external side of things, which will help the cycle. Keep going. 

Aubrey: Thank you that that made me feel more hopeful.

We all need that. Oh, I mean, this conversation has been awesome. Now Jesse, you did this before and you may not remember, uh, but we do have a rapid fire section. So, are you ready? And we’re gonna just rapid fire this super fast. [00:40:00] So first thing off the top of your head, are we ready to rock and roll Rapid fire?

Jesse: Let’s do it. Let’s do it. All 

Aubrey: right, let’s rock rapid fire. Okay. If you could put one book in as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, what would it be? 

Jesse: I’d have to say the secret. It’s done a lot for me lately, and all of the books that I’ve read since in some way, shape, or form, correlate to that manifestation message and, and clear thought.

I try to teach it to my kids. I wish I was taught at a younger age that I can try this out, play with it, and, and start that belief. I would probably say the secret. 

Tara: Awesome. Thanks. All right. That’s by Rhonda Byrne. 

Jesse: Yes. Sorry. All right. 

Tara: No, that’s okay. Just making sure. I’m ter 

Jesse: I’m like the worst reader. I, I, I know the books and I know what I take from them, but I could run into the author and talk to them about their, the whole thing and not even know that that’s who it was.

Terrible. We 

Tara: have our Good Reads list, so we try to make sure we put links to them in our Oh, perfect. Good Reads [00:41:00] list. All right, so the next rapid fire question is what is one app you could not live without? 

Jesse: Outside of work apps man, I, I, I, I hate, I hate to sound like a new generation, but my GPT app has been, has been such a savior in so many ways.

Is that chat, GPT? Personally, yeah. Chat. GPTI got a chat GBT app. I’ve got, you know, the little voice activation. So if I’m on a drive or a long thing and I mean, I can’t tell you how many times where I’m just paralyzed by all of the things that I need to get done now or need to do or what I’m thinking.

Again, I’m never stop thinking brain dump it for and and say, Hey, I’m gonna brain dump when I’m done. I’m gonna say, this is the end. Then you respond. I brain dump the whole thing and then from there. The next 15 minutes, we’re organizing a whole action plan. And that’s just, you know, one little area. But without that, I just, I don’t know. I, I use that probably the most often outside of Slack and, and Monday, uh, if you will. [00:42:00] 

Aubrey: Yeah. You know, spoiler alert, Jesse and I like totally geeked out on chat, GPT and another conversation, and he’s going to be speaking at, at the Small School Leaders conference too. So, uh, excited about more AI to come from.

Jesse. Jesse, what are you reading right now? 

Jesse: I guess this is a little personally telling, um, but I’m just finishing up uh, the imposter cure dealing with, you know, everyone has the imposter syndrome sometimes, uh, some more than others. So my perfectionist modes, uh, this is helping me kind of get through on a personal level.

Um, but I have on deck. Unreasonable hospitality, uh, right there. So I’m super excited to kind of jump in that, ’cause that’s really gonna kind of bring it back to actionable things that we can take into our work life and, and, and help folks with. So, I’m, I’m excited for that one coming up. 

Aubrey: Yeah, I just, I just finished that one.

That was good. I’m not a foodie at all, so I couldn’t relate to all the food things, but it was incredibly interesting read. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Thanks for sharing, Jesse. Um, where can people [00:43:00] find you and learn more about what you do and, and where they can they find these blogs that we keep referencing? 

Jesse: Yes, absolutely.

If you go to, uh, schoolcraft digital.com. Um, you can find all the information about us, what we do, how we help, uh, our school partners across the country. Um, there is, uh, a little resources on the, the, the header there that you can literally drop down into blogs. All of our blogs are there, um, where you can kind of read up on these things.

There’s actually three in this series, um, that we wrapped up. Uh, but there’s other, some good resources there for you as well. If you wanted to link up, obviously we have schedule consultation buttons everywhere. Even if we’re not talking about, um, you know, if we just wanna talk about the book and what you heard here, let’s do it.

So, you know, schedule an appointment, we could talk about how it’s really affecting you and maybe some strategies to go on. 

Aubrey: That’d be fast. Fantastic. Maybe you should start a book club, Jesse, just saying you can get everyone involved and we can all talk about this one thing. One more thing to add to Not GT can handle it, I’m sure.[00:44:00] 

Jesse: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Gosh, I gotta get like my clone avatar so we can, I 

Aubrey: know. Yeah. Talking 

Jesse: with different angles. 

Aubrey: I know. Well, when you figure that out, let me know. 

Jesse: Absolutely. I will. 

Aubrey: This has been awesome. Thanks so much, Jesse, for being here. Thank, we really appreciate it. We love this conversation and just so grateful that you’re in our colleague Sphere and that you’ve shared this information with our amazing school leaders out there who are definitely going through it right now.

So thank you. 

Jesse: No doubt. I really appreciate you having me on. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure talking with you. 

Aubrey: Thanks a lot, Jesse. Thank you. Take care. Bye. 

Jesse: Thank you.

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