76. Rethinking the Independent School Business Model with Peter Baron

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Tara: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Tara Clays. 

 

Aubrey: And I’m Aubrey Bursch. Today we’re joined by Peter Barron. Peter has spent the past 20 plus years serving independent schools, including five years as a chief member relations officer at the Enrollment Management Association and as a board member and champion for independent schools, with a primary goal of helping schools and school leaders succeed.

 

Today he helps reimagined the challenge independent school business model. Welcome, Peter. We are so looking forward to this 

 

Peter: conversation. Oh, thank you both. You know, this is terrific. I can’t wait. I’m just thrilled to be here. Thank you. Yeah, we’re glad 

 

Tara: to have you join us today. And you and I have had a chat before this.

 

So I’m really excited to continue the conversation or share what we’ve already talked about and add on to that today. But can you start by telling us a little bit more about your background beyond what 

 

Peter: Aubrey shared? Yeah, sure. I mean, this is only about a half an hour pod. So I’ll try to keep it, you know, as tight as I possibly can, because the story goes way, way back.

 

In a nutshell, I’m going to take you back to middle school, right? Like you probably didn’t see that coming, but, uh, I was like middle school. Peter has not looks nothing like, you know, Peter of today. I was academically challenged, just not going down the right path, really kind of just having a hard time, right?

 

Like just a hot mess of a middle school kid. And You know, just to quickly set context, my parents, my dad went to public school in Boston. My mom went to public school in Spokane, Washington. So by some good fortune, I ended up at a boarding school in New Hampshire called Brewster Academy. And it literally changed my life.

 

I was given structure. I was given routine. I was taught how to learn. I was, I was, I gained appreciation for learning. And so You know, ninth grade, I entered 12th grade. I exited as a very different kid. And honestly, at the end of that, that, that, that four years there, I knew that I was going to be working with independent schools.

 

Like I thought I was going to teach and maybe go down that path and did that for a little bit, but ultimately realized that I was much more interested in like the intersection of education and K 12 independent schools. And so that’s where I’ve lived for a long time. Now I’ve started my own businesses.

 

I worked for companies like Whipple Hill that got acquired by Blackbaud. Work there for a while. And then I was at the, the enrollment management association, like you said, for five years and, and really thinking kind of critically about, you know, how do schools, uh, iterate on the enrollment model and, and just try to try to be able to help more kids.

 

And it’s something I’m really passionate about.

 

I love that you 

 

Aubrey: started thinking, I mean, that it all started in middle school, Peter, I mean, isn’t that where we kind of figure out, you know, what means the most to us. And it sounds like this, this, you know, experience with. Your school and then moving forward and seeing how you could possibly impact schools has made a huge difference and has really helped shape your career.

 

So today we’re so excited to have you on. Um, and I really want to dive into the topic right now. So let’s, let’s talk about the idea of re imagining the independent school business model. You know, schools are businesses, even though, you know. Some schools are like, absolutely not. I mean, yes, they are. Um, and some school leaders are, you know, hesitant to say that.

 

But, um, what do you mean by schools being businesses and what do you, what do you mean by this business 

 

Peter: model? Look, I mean, I think at the end of the day, you’ve got to take in more revenue than, than you have in expenses. Right. So, you know, there are in some cases, hundreds of families that are dependent on.

 

You know, the paycheck that comes from independent schools for their livelihood. Right. So, so we have, we have a responsibility to make sure that the model that we’re, we’re basing our organizations on is sound. And this is where I get stumped. Like I, let me take you back to 2019. Uh, back then we, I was at EMA and we had partnered with NBOA on the future.

 

Sure. Of the independent school business model. And it was just a topic that I don’t know. I just like, ah, this is at the core of it for me. Like, how do we make sure that these schools are sustainable long term and ultimately creating more opportunity for kids down the road. And so we did a lot of talking about it.

 

We were running around the country, you know, having talking with heads of schools at conferences and things like that. And then there’s this thing called COVID And, um, we all kind of went. Back to our, our core services, because we had to support our members. Cause that was, as we all remember, it was a really hard time.

 

So, but I never lost sight of this, right? I always continue to think about this as something that was really interesting to me. And then I read an article, uh, there’s this consultant out there is strategic consultants names, Ian Simmons, um, really just a brilliant guy. And he had written an art blog article.

 

That basically said the independent school model is broken. What are you going to do about it? And I was like, ah, okay, game on. Let me think about that. Like, so I gave it a lot of thought and like, let me, let me kind of uh, boil it down to the, to its essence. So I’m starting a business. And Tara Aubrey, I’m going to, I’m going to ask you here, like, would you invest in this business?

 

So I’m starting a business. Imagine I’m going to pitch you on it for investment and you to have your own businesses. You know, you understand like profit and loss and what you need to do and all that stuff. And you probably say to me, Hey, you know, Peter, you got a little bit of a track record, but how are you gonna make money?

 

I’m like, all right, well, let me, let me, let me blow you away with my model. 79 percent of my revenue is going to come from sales. Then I’m going to borrow about 5 percent from my 401k. Then each year, I’m going to do a Kickstarter. That’s about 5%. And then that last 11%, you know, I’ve got a basement in my bedroom.

 

I’m in my house. I think I’m going to Airbnb that. And so I, I put that to you and I said, and I ask you like, is that a good? Business, like would you invest in that? And I don’t want to answer for you, but like looking at your heads, I’m thinking, no, you’re probably not going to invest that. So flip it around.

 

Now let’s look at the independent school business model. And this is all data that our friends at MBOA has have published. 79 percent from fees. So that could be tuition fees, summer fees, you know, whatever, that’s kind of a big bucket, right? 5 percent endowment draw, uh, 5 to 6%, uh, annual fund, which is kind of an interesting concept because now you’re going back to the parents.

 

You’ve already paid tuition, asking them for more. And then that 11 last 11 percent is auxiliary and other. So like that can mean a whole bunch of different things like could be you’re renting fields. It could be any number of things and you know, I look at that model and I’m like, ah, boy, we’ve been doing this for years, but yet.

 

I think we’re at this inflection point and NAS published this data over the, over the summer where they asked heads, like what are, basically the question was like, what are the biggest challenges? What are the things that keep you up at night? 100 percent of heads said hiring and staff retention, which I actually see as a symptom of the broken model.

 

91 percent said school sustainability. And I’m like, all right, there’s like something here. And so what I’ve done, what I’ve done is I’ve, I’ve spoken with, gosh, 43 heads of school at this point. And what’s fascinating is that NAIS data aligns perfectly with what the conversations that I’ve had. All 43 acknowledged that the model is broken.

 

All 43 acknowledged that hiring staff retention is, is really acute. So I’m like, Oh, I think, I think this is the time to talk about it. Yeah. 

 

Tara: I wonder if that’s, how is that being received? I mean, how do you, it seems a little controversial or even, I mean, do you get any pushback in terms of like, this is not a business to people think about schools as a business when they go to start them?

 

I mean, I wonder 

 

Peter: comes up. Oh, it’s such a great question. And First off, no, nobody’s pushed back on me. Like I’ve been waiting. I’ve been waiting for somebody to say, no, you know what, Peter, this model is like, ah, it’s great. Like it’s, it’s amazing. Um, and I’m not suggesting that schools are businesses because they’re mission driven organizations that are, you know, 501c3s that have a different look and feel than, you know, a for profit organization.

 

But again, like Every organization has a business model that supports it. How are you going to make more money than you spend? Right. And the model that we’re using to run our schools is really challenged. And, you know, I think what I’ve learned is like, the question I keep asking myself is, all right, we’re in this situation, but why are we in this situation?

 

Like let’s. Peel the onion back and try to get to the core of it to figure out why does this happen? And you know, the, where I’ve landed, and I’m super curious, like you all work with schools all day. I mean, I’d love to get your take on this too, but where I’ve landed is when you look at a typical, you look at the leadership progression.

 

So maybe I’m going to use myself, start as a history teacher, then maybe you become a department chair and then maybe a division director, then maybe associate head and then ahead of school. At what point in that journey have you been taught? Entrepreneurial and business skills and so heads land in their seats, they’re being asked to deal with some very complex financial issues, and they just haven’t had the training at large to be able to approach that, and it’s not because they’re not capable.

 

It’s not because they don’t care. It’s not because their mission driven and deeply connected to their schools. It’s just because they haven’t had the training yet. And this is really kind of what I’ve been, I see as one of the opportunities, right? There are immense opportunities in this model. There’s disruption all over the place.

 

Schools can do really cool things in terms of rethinking how they, uh, work with families and the opportunities that they leverage that are mission aligned and all the things. But there needs to be some fundamental business training that happens along the way so that when they get into those seats. You know, effectively the chief executive officer, right?

 

They’re going to be amazing at curriculum. They’re going to be amazing at culture building. They’re going to be amazing at leadership development, all these things that they’re absolutely fantastic at let’s make them fantastic at the business side too. Well, that begs the 

 

Tara: question, right? Because is that even part of the trajectory, right?

 

When somebody is going into education, they’re not necessarily having an interest or desire or passion for being an entrepreneur. So should that even be the, should that even be the path? Should, should somebody taking that position be an educator or should they be? A business person or should that be an option for the, for the educator, do you want to become a business person?

 

How do you write? Like, how do you even introduce that? It’s not like a, um, it’s not a, a career track necessarily that you 

 

Aubrey: think about 

 

Peter: or part of and I think where I, the way I look at it is I considered a competency. Right. Like as you’re growing in each role, you’re going to have to acquire new competencies to be able to be successful and yeah, kind of business management thinking, thinking differently at the, you know, in an entrepreneurial way, especially as schools are looking at like, all right, how do I.

 

Generate more revenue to offset some of the challenges that we’re facing. Well, you know, you need to have that entrepreneurial and business competency to support you. Otherwise it’s just like you’re learning on the fly. And when you’re running in a school, that’s really hard to do. Like you just are being pulled in 14, 000 directions.

 

And like, let’s get the person to the point that when they are in that seat, that that’s not even something that, like, that’s, that’s just continued growth at that point. It’s not necessarily kind of learning something from scratch. And I don’t think that, 

 

Aubrey: um, the business model of schools is actually discussed much at the administration level level either, not just the key leadership, but at the administration level.

 

So yes, the key leadership should definitely have that business training that they’re not receiving. Right. Cause that is rounding. That’s a competency that they need to really build up, but also those conversations aren’t necessarily help happening. I remember when I first started working in fundraising in the school and I come from like, I mean, one of my skill sets is I like to think outside the box.

 

And I was like asking all these questions. I’m like, so, you know, why are we, we don’t really, we need these funds for this, this year. They’re not here. Like what’s going on. And like, there’s this huge, like, you know, thing we have to fundraise for. And we’re asking parents again, on top of tuition for all this money.

 

Right. And it wasn’t making much sense to me, but like, that’s the way it’s always been done. Right. So, you know, like who’s bringing up the, I guess my question is like, How do you kind of make sure those questions get brought up and are addressed? Um, you know, and I would say, not just once in a while, but more frequently because we’re living in a constantly changing environment.

 

And I think COVID shook it up a lot. So I think this is like you said, this is a really good time to be having these discussions and see what’s possible. So I’m curious your thoughts on that. 

 

Peter: Yeah, I think it’s gonna take time, right? Change is hard, right? And I’m not naive enough to think that I’m going to be able to shift an entire market overnight, right?

 

Like, I look at this as, you know, are there 15 to 20 schools and, you know, maybe more 25 to 50 schools in the next 18 months where I could really make an impact around this, this kind of training and Kind of getting to your point, having different kinds of conversations at your schools, right? Um, but it’s going to take a long time because this, there’s going to have to be a wave of early adopter schools that model the behavior and the success.

 

And there are some schools out there that hurt. I mean, there are schools out there that are doing the work. I’ve talked to them and you know what’s interesting is oftentimes the person who’s the head of the school has one of two things. Either they had an incredible mentor who was thinking in this way and taught and really taught why this is important or they came from came through a non traditional path to the head’s job.

 

Maybe they, you know, I talked with one head of school who was a management consultant before becoming part of it, becoming part of the independent school world. So we’re able to rely on that skill set that most heads just haven’t had the opportunity to, to acquire. Right. So, but why can’t we give them that ability to acquire that skill set?

 

Like this isn’t, this isn’t like a fundamentally. Like wild thing to even think about because leaders get professional. I mean, look, I programmed professional development for tens of thousands of people over my career. So like the paths are there. We just have to start injecting some content that maybe isn’t there right now.

 

Tara: Yeah. Uh, I there’s so much here and I want to try to bring it. Bring it back to one of our focuses on the show, which is marketing, which is part of running a business, right? Like a critical part of running a business. And so we often talk to people and a lot of people who listen to this are working for small schools where.

 

They are the marketing director and also many other things. And so, um, you know, where in your training and that you’re talking about, where does marketing fit into that? Is that, that’s something else that people have to learn and have to value. So can you talk a little bit about how marketing fits into this whole process of thinking about your school as a business?

 

Yeah. 

 

Peter: So I want to flip it. I don’t want to say thinking about your school as a business, more so the underlying business model that supports school. Like that’s really what I’m getting at. Like that’s, there’s a, there’s an important, um, distinction that I want to, I want to make sure. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

 

No, you know, I actually think marketing at schools is kind of at the forefront of all this. Right. I mean, I remember Gosh, like 2006, 2007, if you said marketing to independent schools, people would like, oh my God, what are you talking about? Like, we can’t say that word. It’s one of the forbidden words. And literally that is not an exact, not an exaggeration.

 

I’m always sitting there like, what are you talking about? Like you charge, you charge a price. You need to bring people into your funnel. You think you need to market and tell them why there’s mission alignment between what they, you know, what they’re looking for and what you offer. So to fast forward to 2023 and you know, I feel like I see way more directors of marketing than I’ve ever seen before I’ve seen.

 

Like all the work that you two are doing. And then all the other consultants that are serving this space, like that didn’t exist back in 2006, seven, eight, nine, anywhere in that range. So, you know, schools, I think, understand that this is a really important component to it. Like you’ve got, uh, there’s they’re, they’re competing against free, right.

 

In public schools, they’re competing against the school down the street. They’re competing against new models of education, like micro schools. So they have to be tighter in their focus. Really help families understand why their school would be a good fit for them. And so I think the more we can do to continue to, to, to introduce that to leaders as they’re running through the leadership pipeline, the better.

 

I think that, but, but I will say, like, I think we’ve come a long, long way on that front. Yeah. I 

 

Aubrey: remember 2007 and I would say, um, That marketing. It’s still yes, we’ve come a long way, but there’s still so much. There’s so many schools that don’t have marketing or marketing person or it’s a half a person or it’s the school librarian.

 

Um, yes. So thank you for sharing that. I’m curious, you know. Can you share some success stories that have come out of this or give schools kind of like, you know, how, when you brainstorming, you need, you need a little like idea of how this might look like, what does this look like? Can you kind of share a vision of maybe a school that’s done things successfully that we can be inspired by?

 

Peter: Yeah, no, such a good question. I, I look at there’s, there are many schools that I look at that are doing interesting things. Um, one that I’m that, so I’ve done some case studies on them. So people want to go check them out. Go over to my, my personal website, which is peterbarron. me and you’ll find them there.

 

Um, uh, Providence Country Day is a really interesting school in Providence, Rhode Island, uh, when Kevin Fullen, who’s the head, got there four years ago, you know, he, his charge was to really just to grow the school, is to take it to the next level, and so in almost four years, in nearly four, he’s nearly doubled enrollment in four years, and he’s done that through, like, some really smart decisions.

 

One is they acquired a school, right, so that created it, Uh, going from a 6 through 12 to a pre k through 12. And then they’ve, uh, they did a tuition reset that allowed them to get more competitive and down into like the Catholic school tuition space. So, you know, that opened up their, the total number of families that were.

 

You know, uh, able to pay for their education. But I think he said it was like 6, 000 families or something like that. So pretty significant number. And these, these, these moves that he’s made has really transformed the school. Not to mention he’s got this whole kind of certificate program thing that, uh, kids from around the world can go and take.

 

province country day courses and gain certificates. So as you know, and this, this is particularly interesting for kids who maybe want to come to the U. S. to study. Right. So now you, you, you, you can show that you have experience going through an American accredited program that will only help to bolster your, your college application.

 

And, you know, of course, just exposed yourself to new ideas. So it’s like thinking about. What are those things that may already be in front of us that we’re not necessarily tapping into that are mission aligned? Because if you stray from mission, the chances of success, you know, declined precipitously, right?

 

Like it’s just hard. Like you can’t fake it, right? It’s got to be true to who you are. Um, so I think what they’re doing at PCD is amazing. Um, Amy Jolly up at Apple wild school, which is a K in Massachusetts. She, she’s doing amazing things. Like she went back and looked at their history and realized, you know, we have a history of being a boarding school.

 

Like way back when we had kids that would come in for the winter months and bored and take advantage of the mountains that were near them for skiing. So she rebooted it and now has created a dorm. They’re at full capacity. They’re building another dorm. She sees a path to really transforming the school and generating a lot more revenue to support its growth.

 

So, you know, it’s looking deeply inside to understand like what are the things that we can do that aren’t. that aren’t necessarily so far astray from what we do today, but maybe are just underutilized. And I think that’s a great place to start because there’s, there’s schools that do that, um, and have had success.

 

So, I mean, there are more, but like, those are two that I think are really cool examples for schools, especially smaller schools that are trying to figure out like, how do you know, how do we take that next step? Well, you know, I think those two are good examples.

 

I think Aubrey and I are 

 

Tara: trying to decide who’s going to ask the next question. That’s right. 

 

Peter: I get the editing part at the end. Yeah. 

 

Aubrey: Um, I guess I would say if, if a school is Is saying, Hey, you know, we’re interested in learning more about this. Obviously they can go to their website and learn more about that.

 

But what are some, you mentioned like key questions to ask, like, is there some other things that schools should be thinking about if they’re just having these inter discussions of like asking, like, what could this be? How could we, what’s mission aligned? What, what’s something that we might be able to take on, um, especially for our smaller schools who sometimes have limited resources and everything.

 

Peter: Yeah, I would pick up the pick up the phone and call some of these schools that are doing interesting things like that’s something that I’ve heard from every single head is like, oh, you know, the power of community is incredible, right? So, you know, pick up the phone and call Kevin pick up the phone and call Amy, you know, I’m sure they’d be willing to have those conversations because look at the end of the day.

 

We want more seats in the market, not fewer seats. Like we don’t want to be an industry that’s contracting. We want to be an industry that’s growing. And when you frame it around the fact that there are about 56 million kids in the United States, you know, school attending kids, about 5 million of them go to private schools, which, you know, it could be anything, you know, Catholic schools, Christian schools, micro schools.

 

Like it’s all, you know, all the things, right. All the tuition charging schools. And then. Add another about 700, 000 students who go to NAIS schools. Right. So when you think about it, if we’re just focusing on the NAS market for a second, that’s like 1. 4 percent of the overall market. So like, I see immense opportunity to grow.

 

It’s just a question of like, what are the levers that we can pull as an organization to get there? Like, are we going to do a tuition reset to open up the number of kids who could potentially come to our school? Are we going to create a boarding program like they did at, uh, Apple wild? You know, are, are we going to offer a lower price, you know, kind of less.

 

You know, uh, you know, like, uh, just a straight package of academics versus all the extracurriculars to create a new price point for families to work with us. Like, there’s no idea. There are no bad ideas, right? So I think that, you know, the more you can talk to people and have conversations, the, the, it’s just easier to gain inspiration and kind of figure out, like, what is the right direction for us to go.

 

Tara: Yeah, I know that you’re getting this, the word out about this and you’re having some, you know, um, I believe you’re having a, a session or, um, a seminar next week on November 7th. Yeah, yeah, that will be, we will already, that will already have passed when this, when this goes to air. But you know, the ways that you’re getting the word out about this message, and hopefully we’re helping to share it as well.

 

I’m just wondering what. Your plans are to, to have this more widely accepted and what obstacles you think you might face in that process or, or what’s your marketing plan, I guess, for getting the, getting this concept in front of more schools. 

 

Peter: So, yeah, boy, you’re asking the hard questions now. Um, yeah, I’m happy to share.

 

I’m a pretty, pretty much an open book. So next week, which will be. Probably some weeks before that, when you hear this, like I’ll have announced that the name of my new company is called Moonshot OS. And what Moonshot is intended to do is two things. One, it’s to create an upskilling path for leaders. So every leader on the leadership ladder has access to growing their business and entrepreneurial skills.

 

So the assistant director of slide in your department, admission, enrollment, finance, finance, academics, like whatever it may be, all the way up to the head of school. And, you know, that will look in a, that will come in different shapes and sizes, right? Like we’ll have focused, you know, cohort based work, there’ll be on demand stuff, you know, all, all, all the things, right?

 

Then the other track is creating a community of schools that are ready to take Change, right? So in my career, I’ve launched a couple of successful communities for schools and what I’ve seen in both instances is that people are attracted to the professional development. They want to learn, they want to get better, they want to acquire new skills.

 

And that’s certainly something that I’m going to provide. But what, but the reason they stay, it’s because of the connections that they make with other people at other schools. So it’s the school in Seattle talking to the school in Washington, D. C. about, hey, we tried this thing, but We’re not necessarily getting, you know, a lot of traction.

 

Like, do you have any ideas on this? Like, Oh yeah, well, we did this too. And this is what worked for us. And so kind of creating, creating a community of schools that are ready to, you know, transform the model in a way that will ultimately allow them to serve. You know, kids for generations to come, and that’s ultimately where I’m headed.

 

Now, how I get there is, uh, is a journey, right? It’s like not a, I’m not flipping the switch and all of a sudden everything’s going to be ready tomorrow, but you know, the conference that will have passed, I will have hosted on November 7th. Um, and then over the, the. Q1, the first three months of 2024, I’ll have some in person events that people will be able to attend, because I think it’s important to bring people together, uh, along with some online cohort based work.

 

And in that first quarter, I’ll also, uh, open up the community to a handful of schools. You know, basically folks who will be able to come in, join me, let me test things out on them, you know, give me ideas on how to make things better, and then I’ll open it up for general enrollment in, you know, the spring of 2024.

 

And Look, at the end of the day, if in 18 months I get to a place where I’m working with, you know, 25 to 50 schools, then like I, in this, I feel like I’m doing what I need to do, right? Like I’m working with a good cohort of schools. We’re trying things out. We’re making difference. We’re building skills.

 

We’re preparing leaders for the future. That’s where I want to be. And I know that You know, as that gains success, more schools will, will come, but it’s a path, right? And I’m really focused on the next nine months to make sure that I provide the best possible experience I can for schools, because look, there are a million things I could have done with my life, right?

 

This did not have to be one of them, but the reason why I’m doing it is literally goes back to where we started, which was, you know, Brewster Academy changed my life. And I want to make that opportunity available to more kids, not fewer, and I want to equip these schools so that they are, they have long term success and can start to, you know, fund their schools in ways that will allow them to have all the staff that they need and offer different types of ways that families can interact.

 

And open up, you know, enrollment so that they can work with more students. If that’s the path that they want to choose, like all the things, right? Like it’s going to look different for every school, but that’s why I’m doing this is because I feel so passionate about. What independent schools can do for, for kids.

 

And I, I just, I’m a, I’m a big believer and I want to make sure they’re successful long term. That’s amazing. 

 

Tara: Yeah, that’s a great answer. 

 

Aubrey: And it is. Um, and I think you’re making that, that, that ripple, right. And it starts with a couple of schools and it moves out from there. So I’m really excited to see the work that you dive into and to support it in any way possible.

 

Um, I also, you know. My two children attend independent schools and you know, especially my son, he’s thrived so much in that environment and I just look at other students who could totally benefit from, from what he’s experienced. So, I’m just wondering, you know, as We look to the future. You know, what, what are your thoughts on, let’s say we don’t have these important conversations now.

 

What does that look like for schools in like 10, 20 years from now? Like what are the potential challenges we might be facing if we’re not having these conversations right now? 

 

Peter: I think we’re already seeing it. Right. So here’s the thing. Remember back on those, I was throwing some stats at you earlier, you know, like a hundred percent or school school heads were talking about hiring and staff retention being, you know, really one of the most pressing challenge that they’re facing right now.

 

Well, like back, back, back, back that up a little bit, like, let’s figure out why. And so like, if you start to think about it, the first answer you’re going to probably land on is, well, you know, they’re burned out. They’re being teachers are being asked to do too much, and they’re not paid enough. Okay, well then let’s take the next step back well why is that, you know why aren’t, why can’t we have enough staff to do all the things well it’s because we don’t take in enough revenues that ties back to the financial model that we’ve, we established earlier, and, you know, So what ends up happening is, and like, this is, this is the world that you all live in.

 

Right. So like we make immense, like extraordinary promises to our families that you’re going to, your, your child will enroll in the school and have a transformational experience, whatever that may mean for any, for, for every school is going to have a different, you know, transformational experience, but like, that’s fundamentally one of the promises that we make, that’s a really like expensive promise to deliver on financially.

 

Right. Right. So, you know, we promise a lot and we have to deliver on it. So how do we deliver on it? Well, we can’t, our model doesn’t necessarily financially support all of it. So what do we do? We ask our teachers to do more. We don’t pay them as much as they hope to make. And, you know, as a result, especially coming out of COVID, there’s a lot of burnout and when you’re seeing teachers leave the market for those reasons, you know, leave the industry to go do other things to make more money, then it begs the question, like, how long can we ride this?

 

Like if every 100 percent of school heads are saying that this is a problem, like it’s not just because they’re burned out and we’re asking them to do too much as you start to step it back, you realize that it actually is tied back to the model that supports our schools. So we need to make some change.

 

And I just worry that if we if we don’t, and if we continue to try to treat the system symptoms versus the disease, that this is going to continue to, you know, grow and be more acute over time. So we need to start like, that’s the opportunity. The opportunity is like, okay, let’s start, let’s, let’s start to fix this thing and let’s be practical about it and know that it’s going to take time.

 

But like we need to put, um, we need to take that first step in the journey. Yeah. I think 

 

Tara: overall that’s, that’s a really optimistic way to look at it. Um, I 

 

Peter: think there’s a mental opportunity. I really do. Like I think school people are just brilliant. Like they are smart, they’re committed. Let’s just give them a couple more tools so that we can start to kind of think about how to solve this problem over time.

 

Right. That’s where I’m starting with. Yeah. 

 

Tara: Yeah. Well, I’m going to kind of transition. It’s probably a pretty good segue to ask you about mindfulness because that’s the other part of our podcast. And we like to, you know, just kind of touch base with our guests about what mindfulness means to you and how it might apply to the things that we’ve talked 

 

Peter: about today.

 

Yeah. So I, it’s. It took me a long time to figure out how to kind of, to, to get into a better mindful state. Right. Um, so I don’t know if I figured it out, but I find that, you know, sitting on computers and having conversations like this are, are both stimulating and exhausting. Like, you know, like I, I know I’m going to end up, get off of this call and be like, Oh my gosh, I just gave it my all and now I’m really tired.

 

So, The thing that I do to, to kind of help my keep myself kind of in a steady state, two things that I do to keep myself in a steady state. One is I, I try, I try to move as much as I can. So, you know, if it means taking a phone call and getting up instead of a zoom, like that’s wildly, uh, effective, or just like going out for a walk with no devices or anything like that, and just kind of clearing my head and.

 

If I have to process an idea, I’ll process it, but really the goal is to just kind of get into that flow state. So that’s, that’s one thing that I, I do. The other is I just like to, I like to work out because like that ultimately helps. I love it. That’s great. If anybody didn’t see like Aubrey’s son just walked in, which I think is absolutely the best when you’re, you know, that’s the best.

 

That’s, that’s just. We’re all working from home. So like, that’s, that’s the, it’s one of the great things about it. Um, so those are the two things that I do is like, just, you know, get out for a walk and get detached from things and try to just maintain my health, uh, physically. That’s great. 

 

Aubrey: I actually, I am, I’m like in sync with you right there.

 

I was thinking the other day, I was walking with my headphones and I’m like, no, I need to take them out. Yeah, I need to like decompress. This is actually stressing me out more. 

 

Peter: So Thanks . I’ll admit I do listen to podcasts sometimes. Like it’s like I’m not like perfect, but yeah, that does help. It does help.

 

Alright, 

 

Aubrey: so I’m gonna transition us into our rapid fire questions. Are 

 

Peter: you ready? Please? I’m so ready. Okay, let’s go. 

 

Aubrey: If you could put one book as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, 

 

Peter: what would it be? Yeah. So have you read this book? It’s called building a second brain. Yeah. It’s basically like, how do you organize your, your, your life, uh, both digitally and just kind of in general.

 

And the guy who wrote this book, his name is Tiago Forte. I’ve given it to my, I gave it to my daughter to read. She’s a junior in high school. And I wish I had, I wish I had read this when I was in middle school. It’s like, It’s the cure all for executive functioning, right? Um, it, it basically tells you how to process all the information that you’re taking in, what to keep, what to discard and how to organize it.

 

So I think this would be a, uh, for any student, like this would be my number one on my list. Excellent. 

 

Aubrey: Thank you. Think of all the stress you could reduce if you could figure out what to discard. 

 

Peter: Oh my gosh, it’s unbelievable, right? Yeah. 

 

Tara: All right. Next rapid fire question. What is one app that you could not live without?

 

Peter: Yeah. So that’s been a rotating thing over the years. Right now that app is called Reflect Notes. So kind of in the theme of building a second brain, I use this note taking app called Reflect, which really is the hub of my creativity. So I wouldn’t be able to walk away from that. I’m going to have to check 

 

Aubrey: that out.

 

That’s awesome. Um, what are you reading right 

 

Peter: now? Yeah. So I also have that book right in front of me. So I’m, I’m actually rereading like this book called think like a rocket scientist, um, written by ozone for all who just a brilliant writer. Um, and the. The premise that really draws me in is like, how do you, how do you shoot for the moon?

 

Like, how do you make those moonshot moments? And so like, obviously with what I’m doing right now, it’s highly relevant. So I’m just rereading that and kind of continuing to get inspired around how do we, how do we do hard things, right? And how do we, how do we make mental space for it? 

 

Tara: Wonderful. Thank you for those book recommendations.

 

We’re going to add them to our good reads list. And your last rapid fire question is what is one great piece of advice that you’d like to leave us with 

 

Peter: today? Yeah, so I’m going to transition to marketing, right, because I know this is the world that you all live in, and I want to, I definitely, and I spent a lot of time in that space myself, you know, when I had mentioned earlier that, you know, independent schools make these extraordinary promises to schools, and that’s not a derogatory, to families, and that’s not a derogatory thing, it’s just like, it’s who we are, right, we want to help as many people as we can, I think part of the challenge from a marketing standpoint is when you try to be all things to all people, that’s like a really tough promise to keep.

 

Right. Right. Right. So the more schools can lean into like who they are and what, and how they serve as a way to differentiate from public schools, from all the other types of independent schools and private schools that are out there. I think they, that’s a really good reminder to always kind of have maybe written on a sticky note that’s, you know, attached to your, your monitor.

 

’cause you know, it kind of mission creep is an easy thing. That’s an easy, it’s an easy trap to fall into for sure. That’s 

 

Aubrey: such a great piece of advice. Thank you so much. And thanks for being on the show today. Um, if people want to learn more, where can people find you online? 

 

Peter: Yeah. So a bunch of places, obviously LinkedIn.

 

Like, so if anybody just Peter Baron on, you know, go find me on LinkedIn. I’d love to connect with you all there. Um, but then, you know, moonshot os. com is one and then peterbaron. me is the other, you know, those are the two, those are the three best places to find me. 

 

Tara: Fabulous. Thank you again so much for joining us.

 

Yeah. Thank 

 

Peter: you. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah, please, please. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. All right. Thanks. 

 

Aubrey: Bye. Thanks. Bye.