137. Rethinking Fundraising: Smarter Strategies for School Advancement with Barbara Barron

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[00:00:00] Tara: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Tara Clays. 

[00:00:03] Aubrey: And I’m Aubrey Burch. Today we’re joined by Barbara Baron. Barbara is a consultant specializing in independent school advancement. She helps schools expand their capacity to raise money and build joyful philanthropic cultures. Welcome, Barbara. We’re so excited you’re here.

[00:00:18] Barbara: Oh my goodness, same. Thank you so much for having me. Been looking forward to this all week. 

[00:00:24] Tara: Thank you. We’re excited that you’re here too, and it’s nice to meet you, sort of in person after seeing you on Aubrey’s conference. We’re really excited to dive into some key development topics, like how to engage alumni, whether galas and auctions are worth the effort.

[00:00:39] A big question that gets asked a lot. Mm. And how marketing and development can work better together. So let’s kick the discussion off with a common advancement team Question. Mm-hmm. You talk a lot about how advancement work is all connected. Yep. Where do you see marketing really helping development teams hit their goals?

[00:00:56] And can you share an example where marketing and development worked well together and made a real difference? 

[00:01:02] Barbara: I can, so for years, development, marketing admission, kind of siloed off. Right. Everybody doing their own thing and while there’s a certain philosophical reason for that and there’s certain boundaries that we want to respect, it’s the collaboration between those three offices that really ma are game changers.

[00:01:21] Specifically the way that marketing can help to amplify the messages that both admission and development want to communicate to their families. ’cause truthfully, it’s the same message, right? It’s about mission and mission in action, whether that’s what’s going on in the classroom and how that. Enhances the student experience, whether it is the ways that donors are making a difference by supporting the program and the people, it’s all about the mission.

[00:01:47] So when marketing is intimately involved and those departments are working together to come, come up with sort of those through line messages that work. For everybody that that’s where the magic lies. So I re I many times have had the experience of coming to work for a school where that’s been the issue.

[00:02:06] Like we’re kind of working at cross purposes and I feel like I hear from the head, I feel like we could raise, be raising more money and also strengthening our our retention. So one of the tools that I bring to those schools is the idea of building what I call a guide to giving and getting involved.

[00:02:22] And this can take all different kinds of forms, but essentially it’s one place for new families to learn what’s expected of them, when they’re going to be asked for various things like volunteerism. Or donating who are those people that are gonna ask them what’s, what’s kind of the, the cadence of the year?

[00:02:41] And it, that is a product that is best built by these teams working together, right? Where we have marketing smarts and we have the development folks and the admission people all working together. And I’ve worked with several schools where this has. Changed sort of the culture of those offices working together and has made life much clearer and better for the parents that are joining this community and trying to figure out what’s gonna be expected of them.

[00:03:08] Aubrey: I love that. I think I just came from, a workshop where they were talking about the key for transparency for parents, and that’s both with like marketing as well as school leadership, and especially fundraising and like what’s expected. Yeah. Right. And so I think that, that there is a great example of how marketing development can work together.

[00:03:25] And I loved how you said like, there, there, there, it’s this one storytelling mission, like it’s mission and then the storytelling that goes along with it. And we all have to have a cohesive feel with that. I would also like to add, I’ve noticed, and I’m probably sure you have too, like marketing can bring kind of some of the skill sets or professional development they’ve taken advantage of.

[00:03:44] Like how people engage with, like, do they read the long form letters anymore? Right. What’s people’s attention span like? A lot of times marketing might have that more, that mindset that they can bring to, yeah. The development team and be like, okay, hey, so here’s what we figured out. And development can be like, okay, so with fundraising these are the trends.

[00:04:02] Like this is what we need to do. Right? And that can be such a good collaborative experience, like and produce things like you just mentioned. So 

[00:04:09] Barbara: that’s, and really how to tell the story. You’re right. And marketing is bringing some skillsets like about. How to really use photography and videography and, and, and the, the brand style of the school to, to make sure that it’s amplifying the message right.

[00:04:23] And that we’re all, and for the pa from the parents’ point of view, it, it’s so respectful to hear what is gonna be expected of them when they join a new community. And what we don’t want is for them to feel all kinds of wind and dined and gotten to know by the admission team. And then it’s like, who’s that chick over there in development?

[00:04:41] What is that all about? We want there to be one welcoming voice and face for the school, and we want those teams to work together to make sure families feel welcomed and know what’s coming. 

[00:04:51] Aubrey: There’s no ball drop, there’s no like, it’s just a continuous kind of like feel and experience for parents. So yeah.

[00:04:59] Great. I love that guide idea too. I’m sure a lot of schools are. I love that. Really appreciate. Um mm-hmm. Now I’m gonna steer us to a question that I’m actually delighted to ask this question ’cause I know you’re gonna be completely real with me mm-hmm. In our audience. So, during the Small School Leaders conference, we had a fantastic conversation about it.

[00:05:17] And it’s, this question comes up at every. Development round table. I’m out, including the one I was out today. Like auctions and galas have been such a big part of school fundraising. Yeah. Like for years. I mean, has there ever been a, a time when they haven’t? But they can feel tired, some, a little tired sometimes.

[00:05:34] A lot of people like the staff producing them are getting burnout. So what’s your take? Should schools keep doing them or are there better, more meaningful ways to build community and raise money? 

[00:05:45] Barbara: Yes, there are. And, and you know, with a nod to the past, there was a time when we had. A lot of parents with time on their hands and wanted to do this kind of work for our schools, right?

[00:05:57] Those days are sort of over, most people are, have jobs and that they need to have, and so there isn’t, there isn’t that volunteer workforce to put on a big, fancy event. And, and that’s just as well the. Really the development office should own all strategic fundraising for the school anyway, but we just don’t have the armies of people to do it.

[00:06:16] And so therefore we, we’ve got kind of a model that we’re still trying to make fit that I think has run its course. So first I would say if your school doesn’t do an auction or gala, thank your lucky stars and don’t start one. Okay. If you have one now that you feel kind of saddled to, which is understandable.

[00:06:35] We all get very used to that kind of. Money in the spring when we need it, but the, the ROI on. A galas and auctions is the lowest of all fundraising efforts. The best are capital campaigns, the least are, are fundraisers like galas and auctions. So they, they cost a lot, and prices are gone through the roof.

[00:06:57] We don’t have the armies of volunteers to run them. So, as you pointed out, Aubrey, our, our, our tiny little staffs are already run. I mean, going too too thin as it is. And then we’re asking them to do this big lift at this time. Also they’re not, they, we, we say that they’re community builders, but I, I have to beg to differ with that.

[00:07:17] When the ticket price is a hundred and fifty, two hundred, two hundred $50 a person or a couple, that’s not really for our whole communities, not the way we see our communities anymore. So if they’re not really the community builders and they’re really inexpensive way to raise a few dollars and they exhaust everybody, I think it’s time to look.

[00:07:38] Elsewhere. So one of the places that I think is probably the richest vein is to look, to build a major gifts program to support what we’re looking for here, which are additional dollars above and beyond annual giving. And in any one year we’ve got families that have that capacity that if we had a really mission-driven.

[00:07:58] Project that they could help make happen for us, we would probably realize the same. Net dollars. Net dollars, not gross dollars than we would ever hope to realize in an expensive, time consuming exclusive limiting auction or gala. So I would say look to major gifts as a way to begin to sunset these outdated practices and be more inclusive and raise more money.

[00:08:26] Tara: Yeah. Well, on a related note let’s talk about alumni. So, because that’s often where, where we look when we go for that, in addition to, you know, current families, alumni is a much bigger bucket than your current families, right? And everybody wants their alumni to be super generous donors, but especially for, you know, K through 12, K through eight schools is not like a university like higher ed.

[00:08:48] It’s not always realistic. And why is this such a hard nut to crack and is it possible to increase alumni giving substantially for these schools? And is that effort worth it? Tell us a little bit about your take on alumni. Yeah. That, that’s 

[00:09:01] Barbara: there. There we have it. Right. Tara, it’s like, what, what’s the balance here?

[00:09:06] So, I think that we need to be realistic, first of all, schools that end in fifth grade, eighth grade, even 12th grade. Unless you have built alumni relations really well into the culture of being a student at the school. Meaning I go to school and I see alumni in the life of the school. I see alums coming to speak.

[00:09:25] I see them helping out. I see them teaching at my school. I get a vision for what it’s like to be a good alum for my alma mater someday in the future, right? So we, we, we need to teach that and show that every day. So that’s where, where I would start is getting alums back involved in ways that actually they really wanna do, right?

[00:09:44] They wanna be with the students and they’d like to help out in the class or bring some expertise about their profession. But it’s really about realistic goals. What. What are we really trying to do with alumni relations? If we think that by having someone in the office that collects class notes and reaches out to alums and puts together, you know, bowling parties for 17 year olds or whatever, is gonna raise a lot of money.

[00:10:11] Even in the long term, I think that’s unrealistic. It is such a long ball. Now if Alumni Relations is about connecting with families that are prospective. Admission candidates. That’s a little different. Right. And I was working with a school in Northern California, and that’s how we redefined alumni relations.

[00:10:32] Let’s look for those families, those alums that have resettled in the area and might want to send their own children to the school. So they are, you’re, you’re looking to. Join your community and also raise money from those folks down the line. But you’ll be raising money from them as current parents, not as young alums.

[00:10:51] So I, I think it’s really, it’s an issue that we, we need to get very clear about priorities. I have often found that the voice that’s saying alumni, alumni, alumni are trustees who are well intentioned, but maybe not quite so clear about how we really raise money for schools and that it is generally not gonna come from alums.

[00:11:15] Now, there’s always the exception and I’m, I’m sitting here in northwest Connecticut, which is just rife with boarding schools. Those are the ones that tend to. Do a better job and have more success raising money from their alums. But those are, those are schools that had kids living on their campus. They grew up there.

[00:11:34] So there’s just a different kind of connection. So for day schools, it’s always gonna be a real long ball, and I think it’s unfair to put that expectation on small school teams that are doing the best they can to raise the money. The, you know, to reach those big goals that they’ve been given from families that are not, you know, not really their top prospects.

[00:11:55] Tara: That is so helpful. I can hear a big size of relief all around coming in right now. Well, we 

[00:12:00] Barbara: just have to tell that to their boards. I mean, exactly. The development people know this and we don’t, they’re, I’m not telling them anything they don’t know. And maybe expanding the definition of alumni relations can help too.

[00:12:10] Let’s talk about alumni families. S let’s not put the burden, you know, on the 12-year-old or the 22-year-old to be where we’re gonna raise the money, but maybe it’s staying in, in, in good touch and a good relationship with, with the family as they go forward. 

[00:12:26] Aubrey: Yeah, I think that’s so key. I’m just thinking of a school that I’ve worked with where like, they don’t even have like the data for the, so they’re like, do we spend like x amount of money or time trying to get this data of our alumni?

[00:12:41] Like, you know, those are like, that’s a lot of time and energy and so yeah. Where, where are you going? What’s, where is that gonna take away from, as you were mentioning Exactly. And what’s the goal and what’s the realistic goal? Precisely. 

[00:12:55] Barbara: And, and you know, the thing is, you know, years ago alumni offices really did serve alums because that’s how alums would find their friends, is they came through our alumni offices.

[00:13:05] Well, Facebook changed that. So social media has changed that. They don’t need us to connect them with their buddy. They can find all of their friends on their own. We need them. More than they need us. So it really is an important, it is important to change that paradigm and think about the way that we really could be of service to our alums.

[00:13:26] Aubrey: Oh my gosh, that’s so true. I wasn’t even thinking about that part. And I’m also thinking of like the alumni magazines that everyone like, I mean they’re so great, but they would like covet them and they’d look at, oh, who got engaged? Like who’s getting married? But now you’re right. Social media, it’s different now.

[00:13:40] You just find out that stuff instantaneously and it’s 

[00:13:43] Barbara: so outdated by the time you get that magazine. That was six months ago. So it, we have to really rethink some of those tools. 

[00:13:51] Aubrey: So interesting. I love that. Thanks for sharing, Barbara. I am going to steer us into another thing that I, we’ve had this conversation.

[00:13:58] I’m passionate about this. I’m, I’m mm-hmm. Like we talk about school families. Okay. Yeah. As a parents of an, of, of children in independent schools, I, yep. To feel passionate about this. Like we ask a lot of our families, like, so whether it’s like. Bringing food for potlucks, like the multiple potlucks. Oh, just bring something and donating coats to this coat drive that’s just randomly popped up that the students are organizing or volunteering for the parent association like.

[00:14:24] And this is on top of like any sort of activity fees that have been right, you know, strapped on after you’ve gotten your tuition bill, by the way. And like all the, any student fundraisers like, or you know, you have to buy your child’s handmade thing at like, some sort of bizarre art bizarre that’s happening, right?

[00:14:41] Like, there’s a lot of asks that go on, right? We’re asking parents of a lot, right? Wow. So how does all that asking and like all those like. You know, kind of ask from the school impact fundraising efforts and how can schools manage it better? 

[00:14:57] Barbara: I, I like to say it, it’s as though they’re being PE to death by ducks.

[00:15:01] We are asking way too much and we’re, it’s all coming at them in, not in any kind of coordinated, sequenced way. So I refer back to that guide for giving and getting involved, or whatever you decide to call it if done right, that’s gonna spell it out for what families can expect and when they can expect it.

[00:15:19] And then we need to stick with that. So I am not a fan of all of the student fundraisers, the car wash here, the thing there, the whatever, because the audience is the same audience. That the development office is seeking meaningful gifts from. So in part it’s about reduce the number of those things because you’re, you’re, you’re overwhelming and kind of exhausting your audience, but also get your timing right.

[00:15:44] The annual fund should launch first, and any student fundraiser, other fundraisers need to come. Well after that. And that should be clear to families as they join, this is what you can expect, that these are the ways you’ll be asked to be involved. Here are the times you can expect it and who you’re gonna hear from.

[00:16:01] But you know, I just feel like a lot of those fundraisers, you know, you hear the argument, well, it’s good for students to learn how to, how to raise money. I said, I think that probably those are good skills. But if they’re just raising money from their. Parents for things that are gonna benefit them. I have to say, wait a second.

[00:16:20] Is that really anything like philanthropy? I think it’s a little self-serving now if the students are trying to learn, are learning how, using those skills, learning how to raise money for some other organizations, some say some charity or organization. That has an aligned mission that your school has got a history with.

[00:16:39] That’s a different sort of skills that I do think are helpful, but we’ve just gotta back it up and say, wait a second, who is really driving this? And what are the goals and strategies that we’re going to use? And then stick with them. And it’s hard to say no, you know, to the very enthusiastic 10th grade, you know, that wants to do the thing, but.

[00:17:02] We, we’ve just, we’ve gotta be able to be really clear about what the strategy is and what the guidelines are so that we can, we can not be exhausting these parents and, and really giving kids kind of a false impression of, of what the value is of what they’re doing. Yeah. I, I. 

[00:17:19] Aubrey: Oh, go ahead Sarah. That’s hard note.

[00:17:22] I was just gonna say like that, that whole runway, I, that’s where I see leading up to the annual fund is where I see the most mishaps happen with schools. Yes. Where they’re like, they all of a sudden an act, there’s a classroom activity fee for some reason that like wasn’t rolled into tuition. I don’t know why.

[00:17:37] Right, right. And then the parents association asked for fee. Which one, once again, some reason asking why that wasn’t rolled into tuition. Correct. Right. And then, and then like you have all these things leading up. So by the time the annual fund launches, they’ve been asked six ways to Sunday. So like I think just at least, I think the one takeaway someone could take from this conversation is probably like, just make sure your runway to the annual fund.

[00:18:01] Yeah, it’s free, it’s clear of asks, just get there, then start building the other things in like that. Yeah. 

[00:18:07] Barbara: And also launch your annual fund earlier. Yes. What are you waiting until November for? Yes. When everything starts to go off the rails. Yeah. People are happy in October. Yeah. Everyone’s by 

[00:18:19] Tara: November.

[00:18:19] That’s, 

[00:18:19] Barbara: that’s before the first sad science test or the first fight with the friend. You know, let’s do it early and stick to mission, why we’re raising the money because. Of this fabulous place that we so love that we want to make thrive. That’s why we’re raising the annual fund, not to keep the lights on.

[00:18:39] Not because we can’t, tuition doesn’t cover the cost enough with the gap we’re raising, we’re raising money because this is a worthwhile organization and has a strong mission. After we get our annual fund done, then you can turn to some of these other, these other little activities. But again, I, I keep it minimized.

[00:18:58] Tara: Yeah. This. I find this to be like encouraging, validating, frustrating, all at the same time. As we mentioned before, we recorded, I do fundraising for a nonprofit that I’m on the board of. And so, you know, we face these types of challenges there as well, even though it’s not a school. And this next question is related to something that, that we talk about a lot in our fundraising efforts, which relates to email.

[00:19:23] And there are some stats that say the average parent has something like 2,800. On red emails, which just makes my, like the hairs on my arms stand up. 

[00:19:33] Barbara: My palms are sweating. My palms are sweating. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:37] Tara: That little button on your phone that shows you how many unread messages I’ve seen people, you know, with thousands.

[00:19:43] I don’t know how that happens, but No, 

[00:19:44] Barbara: I don’t. I don’t.

[00:19:45] Tara: Yeah. So, but with that information, how can schools break through the noise and not have your message not get lost when emails, you know, the way that we tend to try to communicate, or even if you’re doing texting with your parents, still even that.

[00:20:00] You know, we’re getting bombarded by texts now, spam texts all day long. So, you know, how do, how do you how do you approach that getting parents to pay attention to your annual fund messaging? 

[00:20:14] Barbara: Right. So I think there’s a couple of prongs here. One is, again, stop. Do we really need to send this email?

[00:20:19] There’s a lot of just kind of automatic sending, sending, clicking, sending, texting that maybe if we slow down, we could put things together. Combine messages, something, it may not be, you may have to send it, but at least ask the question, is this really important and is this the time to do it? Also, if we go again, back to that guide, when are we gonna hear from the, the various departments of the school about these various projects or activities?

[00:20:48] If I know that, then I’m much more likely to open the email because I was expecting it as opposed to the. You know, just the onslaught that seems to happen. So somebody, you know, it’s, it’s hard to be the email police in a school. It really is. But somebody kind of keeping an eye about sequence and pacing and frequency, I think is, is important.

[00:21:10] So there’s that. That’s managing the outbound of it. Then I also would say, you know, is it about the mission? Fall back to that. What are we, why are we communicating and what is it about that is connected to mission that people all claim that they care about? I mean, they’re writing a check for tuition because they want that.

[00:21:28] So the, the more the messages are connected to mission, I think the better. And then the third thing I would say is be real. Even, even if it, that means not being perfect, right? The, the app, you know, just presenting this sort of flawless, facade is not believable. No, nobody believes it. We would much rather have communication that’s real and honest and I think much more likely to have people open and read something that says, oops, we goofed, or This wasn’t what we expected. Or a big surprise at school meeting today, you know, when we are real with our families about what’s going on, we, our reader, the readership goes, goes way up and doesn’t just go up for that, but we build.

[00:22:12] The kind of trust that is likely to have them, you know, giving us the benefit of the doubt going forward. So I think it’s a combination of things slowing down, really figuring out do we need to send this, combining messages when we can. Being faithful to the guide, the promise that we made to families when they joined us and we told them when, when we’re gonna communicate about various events and then stay keeping close to mission and being real.

[00:22:39] Aubrey: I love this. I think this is so, and I mean you can have so many great things here that both apply. I think they, they come from the mission. The mission, yeah. The marketing angle as well as the development angle. They’re so combined here because, I mean, authenticity is something we talk about a lot in marketing and like how important that is because when we’re authentic, people see us and they relate to us and they connect with us.

[00:23:02] The other things. Yes. Right. And the other thing I was gonna say is the communication piece, like laying out, if we’re not laying out to our parents, like you said, like. I was just working with a school the other day to do a comms calendar. Like on Thursdays is when the all school newsletter comes out, like on the teachers send something once a month on the, the 15th of each month.

[00:23:24] Like you can expect that, you know, development will send, you know, these things around annual fun time, like this is, that’s right. This is, and everyone holds to what they’ve said. The, the Parents’ association stuff is woven into the weekly email instead of a separate email. Right. Like how do we. Reduce the amount of noise that we’re throwing at parents and tell them what to expect and what are, and also I say set the expectations for them.

[00:23:50] We’re expecting you as a parent to, yeah. Read these things, we’ve purposely streamlined them for you so that it we’re not clogging your inbox. So I think that like what you just said there was, was gold. Really, it’s 

[00:24:03] Barbara: fidelity, right? It’s the fidelity to what we said we were going to do and here’s what we expect of you.

[00:24:08] And it’s like in any relationship, if we’re clear about it, it’s what we don’t say about expectations that gets us every time. You know, it, it, so if we are clearer about that and stick with that, I, I think that goes a long way. It’s not gonna solve anything. There’s no a hundred percent about anything.

[00:24:23] But I think that goes a long way to solving some of that, some of that clog 

[00:24:28] Aubrey: Absolutely. 100%. Well I’m gonna shift us completely another direction. Great. So, through our, the lens of our podcast, we talk about mindfulness Yeah. And how it app, it applies to school leaders. Mm-hmm. And just, you could apply it to fundraising too.

[00:24:45] How do you define mindfulness and like, how would you apply it to people working in the development office too? 

[00:24:51] Barbara: This is such a great question. I thought about this a bunch before we, we talked and I’m reminded of a piece of advice I got very early in my career. It was from the head of the middle school at the school where I was working as director and, and she said to me, you know, people are never the distraction.

[00:25:07] People are the work. The in. If you feel like you’re getting interrupted by people coming to talk to you, you, you’ve got that wrong. They’re the reason that you’re here. So for me, mindfulness is being present. To the mi, to the person, to the conversation that I am in. And this really is true in fundraising.

[00:25:27] We, we, when we’re about to do a big ask, let’s say people get very nervous about this conversation, right? So sometimes I do training of board members or development professionals or heads and heads of school about the ask, and we wanna get really comfortable and fluent with it so that. We can actually be in the moment with the person.

[00:25:49] You know, we’re not running the script in our head. We know where we are in the conversation at any moment, so we can really listen and we can really be with that person for what in whatever emotion they’re having along with that ask. So for me, with fundraising, mindfulness is that presence. It’s slowing down and being really there with the people that make all the difference.

[00:26:12] And it is an honor and a privilege. Ooh, to sit with a family and ask them to support our schools. And so to be zipping about in our heads and our monkey minds when we have been given that that rare precious moment is, is is a loss. So that’s how I would define it. 

[00:26:31] Tara: Wow. That’s really, that’s really powerful.

[00:26:33] I love that. The honor and privilege part of that. It’s a good way to look at it. It’s kind of like the, the, I get to mentality instead of I have to Exactly. 

[00:26:43] Barbara: Exactly. Yeah. Development gets kind of a bad rap. People say, oh, I could never do your job. That’s so hard. What? I get to sit with families that love this institution and have the the resources to make dreams come true.

[00:26:57] That that’s an honor and a privilege. 

[00:27:00] Tara: Yeah. Thank you. We are gonna move on to our rapid fire questions. Fun. These are fun. So the first one is, if you could put one book as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, what would it be? 

[00:27:14] Barbara: Well, I, I’m I’m kind of inspired to, to be very snippy and say the constitution.

[00:27:20] So, and I do actually think that, but the, the two books that I’m gonna suggest might surprise you. There neither Is, is brand new. One is called The Art of Possibility by Ben and Roseman. Xander. And that is a beautiful book about creativity and it’s written in these brief little chapters, great little stories, and it really is thinking beyond.

[00:27:40] And the other one is called Orbiting the Giant Hairball. Just a dynamite title, and it’s by Gordon McKenzie and he worked for Hallmark Cards for years. And it’s about organizations and how they kind of tend to stifle creativity and how to get yourself out of that. So I think in both cases this is about thinking about possibility and creativity that we, there’d be fun reads for students and we kind of surprise ’em to be, have that assigned.

[00:28:08] Aubrey: I love it. I love it. I have so many books now that I want my son to be reading. Yes. When he’s a teenager. Oh goodness. Great. So he likes to read. Yeah. Okay, so what is one app you couldn’t live without? 

[00:28:23] Barbara: Well, I’m a big reader and so I love my Good Reads app ’cause it keeps track of my little, you know, I challenge myself and, you know, I have my little reading challenge every year.

[00:28:32] So I, I do like that one a lot. And of course, I’m a, I’m addicted to my podcast, but I, I recently started playing with the New York Times games with the app. Oh my gosh, my mornings with my coffee are so fun with, you know, all of those games to get my, get my mind going. So I would say, say that one. 

[00:28:51] Tara: Great.

[00:28:52] Yes. And we have a good Reads list, which is really wonderful. You should check out where we put all of the recommendations from our guests from over a hundred episodes. So there’s a lot of, oh my gosh, I’m going there 

[00:29:02] Barbara: as soon as this is over. Great. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:29:04] Tara: There’s a link at the bottom of our website for it.

[00:29:06] Okay, cool. Our next question is also a book question, which is, what are you reading right now? 

[00:29:11] Barbara: Well, I’m finishing a fabulous historical fiction piece called Frozen River. By Ariel Lawon. And it’s, I mean, I’m thinking about these characters when I’m not reading. I love a book like that, and it takes place right after the Revolutionary War and Centers around a midwife and all that that implies.

[00:29:30] And it just beautifully written, great character development really strong women in the story. And the next thing, I’m, as soon as I finish, probably tonight, I’m, I’m gonna do Michael Lewis’s. Collection of essays, who is government and I don’t usually I’m a Kindle girl, so I don’t usually have a hardcover, but I’m supporting my local bookstore.

[00:29:49] And I dunno if you know, this is, it’s the untold story of public service. It’s essays written by lots of different folks about people in government. Doing really important, different kinds of jobs that we wouldn’t know about, and I think we sort of think of government as this, like one big mass, but really it’s us, you know?

[00:30:06] And it’s lots of people doing hard, important work. So I’m, I’m gonna dive into that next. 

[00:30:12] Tara: I love that. That sounds amazing. I know. Thank you. 

[00:30:16] Aubrey: That was great and I love that you already have a book lined up like, oh, you’re like terrible. Okay. We like to read. 

[00:30:22] Barbara: Oh, I feel a little panicked. If I’m at on a Kindle, it’s, I go by percent.

[00:30:27] If I’m at like 90% and I don’t have something else queued up. I feel a little nervous. 

[00:30:33] Tara: Yeah. Yeah. And I actually switch from Good Reads to story graph. Okay. You can import all your stuff from, I still have good reads, but I’m trying to wean myself off of some larger companies that own Good Reads. Me too.

[00:30:50] Barbara: Story craft. 

[00:30:51] Tara: Story Graph. 

[00:30:52] Barbara: Graph. Okay. 

[00:30:53] Tara: And it’s pretty easy to just export your stuff, all your history from Good Reads into it. So you can check that out too. 

[00:31:00] Aubrey: And Tara is, Tara has done challenges for herself for reading too. So you guys are very aligned on your reading challenges and. Things. I was just thinking that when you were talking like, oh, Tara, you are Yeah.

[00:31:12] Perfectly aligned on this. I love it. 

[00:31:14] Tara: Yeah. It’s overwhelming. I was just telling a friend, we were, my husband and I were in a, a different city and we were going into a bookstore and I made a little note in my little notes thing about how I feel like I’m at an all you can eat buffet, but I can’t, I don’t.

[00:31:27] Any appetite, like I can’t eat it all. I have a huge appetite, but I can’t eat it. It’s, it’s so frustrating. And I have another friend who said bookstores are so stressful for her because she just wants to read everything and she wants, wants to read ’em. She can’t 

[00:31:38] Barbara: all, yeah. 

[00:31:39] Tara: The good reads. My good reads list is longer than I will ever get through.

[00:31:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:31:43] Aubrey: That’s all 

[00:31:43] Barbara: right. That’s a good way to live. 

[00:31:45] Tara: Yeah. I love Barbara 

[00:31:46] Aubrey: that you said you supported your local booth. Bookstore. My mom’s a big advocate for that, so thank you for me too. Liking our, our cute little local bookstores. I know that every like, romance author, like writes about the cute little bookstore I know in the Hallmark movies.

[00:31:58] I know, but those are like rarely around. So let’s support the ones that are I 

[00:32:02] Tara: we really should. Exactly. Yes. And the Libby app. The Libby app is amazing. 

[00:32:07] Aubrey: So, and I, I am a big library girl, so I have, I’m my bedside table now has. I’m sad to say it has 50 books on it. 55 0. ’cause what I did is all my holds came in at once.

[00:32:20] So, but it’s great. And they’re, they’re from the library. I’m like, so yeah, that’s right. And my kids have probably 25 on their bedside tables. I came from the library. The limit is a hundred, just so you know. How long do you have to read all 

[00:32:32] Tara: of those? 

[00:32:33] Aubrey: Not long, because then they start sending threatening notices.

[00:32:36] Right. But then I return them and then I put a hold on them again. Then they come back to me, to their home, away from home. Anyways, I digress. We could talk forever, Barbara. So, okay. Last question. Yeah. What is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us with? 

[00:32:53] Barbara: Yeah. So it’s, it’s not gonna surprise you, but it’s mission driven, right?

[00:32:59] When we don’t know where we’re going, or we have a challenge or a conflict in schools, return to the mission. It’s the thing that we, if, if it’s a good one, it’s what will unite us in our work. It will help us find our way through the, the confusing and the conflict. And when we can, we can see it in action that is bolstering.

[00:33:22] So if you’re having a horrible day. Get out of your office and go put your head into band practice or sit in the back of play rehearsal or go to the basketball practice or, you know, slip into the back of the chem lab, watch what’s going on in your school. It will bolster you and remind you about why you’re doing this hard work, and especially in times of uncertainty, which we are.

[00:33:49] Sorely in, surely in and chaos, which I would say we are as well. The, the missions of our schools are the thing that, that keep us united and, and can give us some clarity about going forward. So I would say return to mission, even in your conversations with your colleagues, and I wrote about this recently in one of my articles, like it, you know, find the thing that, that you have in common and, and there’s this term called flocking.

[00:34:16] Which is opposed to freeze fight flight. There’s flocking, which is the coming together and being together in our, in our moments of distress or worry. And one of the best visuals of that is, you know, when you see birds, oh shoot, the word is escaping me right now and they’re flying in formation. I’ve forgotten what it’s called.

[00:34:40] Anyway, these beautiful masses of birds flying together, that’s what they’re doing. And we can find that, I think often when we look into the mission of our school, 

[00:34:50] Aubrey: that was beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. It makes me wanna go sit in a school immediately. 

[00:34:57] Barbara: Yeah, I know. Get back out there and inspiring. Yes, thank you.

[00:35:01] Thank you. Murmuring. That’s what it’s called when the birds flying. It’s called murmuring and it’s like, I did not know that’s in charge. There’s this intuitive thing that they’ve got going and they switch positions to sell, pay, help each other out and all of that. But that’s just a really great visual of what we’re we’re attempting to do.

[00:35:21] Aubrey: I learned something really new today. I mean, I’m impressed. I had no idea. I always wonder how they don’t bump into each other, but they’re, yeah, look 

[00:35:27] Barbara: it up. You’ll see the images of it are incredible. 

[00:35:29] Aubrey: Yeah. 

[00:35:30] Barbara: You know, Google it and you’ll see just beautiful examples. Thank you, Barbara. This 

[00:35:35] Aubrey: has been such an amazing conversation.

[00:35:37] Where can people find more about you and what you. 

[00:35:41] Barbara: Thank you for that. So I have a presence on LinkedIn certainly, but my website is barbara baron.com. And I have lots of information there. I, I publish an article every couple of weeks that I push out to folks that, that subscribe and it’s very easy to subscribe.

[00:35:58] But all of my articles, even if you don’t wanna subscribe, are archived on the website. So you can type in the search bar, something about trustees that I wrote about yesterday or about galas or about. Don’t talk about the gap or any of the other kinds of topics that we’ve touched on and many, many others.

[00:36:14] So that’s where they can find me. And I’m always up for a conversation about what’s, what’s going on and challenging you. And I, I like to say at the end of all of my articles when I’m talking to development people in particular, but marketing and advance admissions people, as well as thank you for everything you’re doing.

[00:36:30] Tara: Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. Great. It was really great conversation. I can’t wait to share it. Thank you. Have a great day. My pleasure. Thanks so much.