89. How to Plan and Create the Best Photography For Your School with Rebecca Drobis

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Tara: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Bursch. And I’m Tara Clase. Today we’re joined by Rebecca Drobis. Rebecca is passionate about capturing compelling high impact images of the learning environment. For 15 years, she’s worked with independent schools, colleges, universities, and education publications across the United States.

Rebecca’s training as a photojournalist instilled in her a keen sense of observation and the ability to capture impactful storytelling moments. Rebecca, She prides herself on being a proactive, enthusiastic, and flexible team player. She engages with her clients to understand their marketing goals and unique culture so that she can translate that to a library of photographs that are versatile, strategic, and unique.

Welcome, Rebecca. We’re so glad you’re here. 

Rebecca: Thank you. I’m happy to be here. 

Aubrey: Yes. Rebecca, we’re so excited you’re here and we’re excited to draw like kind of really dive into this topic. But before we get started, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? 

Rebecca: Sure. I’d love to. I am actually a product myself of a independent school in the DC metro area.

So K through 12. So I feel like this work probably started before I even was conscious of it. And I really have always been drawn as a photographer to photographing young people, students my own students. I taught photography for a long time, and I just have a real passion for everything that happens within the independent school system.

So, yeah, it’s been a labor of love. 

Tara: That’s great. I have a similar passion for that type of content as well. It’s really fun to work with photos of cute kids, happy kids, usually. I’m really excited to talk to you about strategy because it’s something that that we focus on as, as, as a website design agency, but also on this podcast, sort of thinking thoughtfully, mindfully and strategically.

So let’s start off by talking about strategies that you would recommend for schools to capture authentic moments that showcase like the unique spirit and culture of a school, not just, you know, a group of kids or something like that. How, what’s the strategy behind that? How do you approach it? 

Rebecca: Yes, I am a big believer in strategy because I think that the more thoughtful a school can be ahead of time.

Understanding that, you know, to bring in a professional photographer, it’s a big investment. And we also need to make sure to, to capture a lot because there are a lot of stakeholders in, in in the equation. So I like the strategy and the planning to first happen in house. So by the time I’m brought in, like, You know, I want to encourage them to have had a lot of conversations across departments across the administration and get a sort of comprehensive notion of what they’re looking to achieve in that.

photo day or, you know, campaign or multiple days, depending on what what we’re, what we’re in for. So I think internally the conversation should happen. And then if we, and then I like to also have a strategy session with the school, especially the director of communications and anyone I’ll be working on site with about What they’re looking to capture what their high level goals are, and then maybe some of the more granular shots or

or, you know, sort of themes that are really important for them and in this upcoming communication cycle. 

Aubrey: I think I love that you say goals, because I think it’s important to have those goals. If we don’t have a goal of what we want to accomplish, then, you know, and a strategy to follow that it’s, it’s really hard to kind of, you know, get to that end point.

So I’m so glad you mentioned that strategy being so important. So I’m curious how do you approach composition to create visually compelling photographs that will help tell a story about a school? And I would say along those same lines, I’m really curious, like, are there like some key shots, maybe like five key shots or types of shots that schools should consider while they’re undertaking this project?

Rebecca: You know, that’s a great question. And I think there is often a big disconnect between, you know, communications professionals and photographers because there usually isn’t a creative director per se. So I kind of wind up like straddling that role myself. And so I, Think that it’s really important to have a lot of wide establishing shots, especially depending on what kind of, you know, website template or service you’re using so that you can get those, like, really big, you know, broad overview feeling of the school from a high level.

And then also have some compelling medium shots where there’s some action, but it feels you know, like you’re on the outside and then my person like one of my what I think are really really important images are the really close ups where you feel like you’re in this intimate learning moment And you’re in the classroom and you can really see it and viscerally.

Understand what that feels like. They those shots tend to have a lot of emotion. You know whether it’s centered around friendship or like a teacher student interaction. So I think those are three really important types of pictures. And I am always very cognizant of capturing like that spectrum.

I’m curious about 

Tara: something that we face a lot when we’re Developing websites and having photography or choosing photography and most schools have an arsenal of photos. They have a lot of photos over a long period of time with a big range, but something that we really try to talk about is reflecting the diversity inclusivity of the student student body in a school.

It’s really important to do as you look back over a library of photos. They may or may not exist. How do you approach that topic with with the photos that you take creating new photos for schools? Is that something that you’re asked to do? And how do you how do you move forward on that topic? 

Rebecca: That’s a really important point.

And I know that for many, many schools, especially in this outward facing sort of their marketing you know, admissions materials. That’s something that’s a huge priority for them. I would say that the longer I’ve been embedded with a school, the more I can really understand their unique setup in terms of diversity and what they’re looking to highlight and sort of what their brand is.

Brand is, but for newer schools, I think I really rely on on their cues for that. I mean, my photo journalistic background sort of tells me to be representative of what is accurate. So, you know, peeking behind the curtain, like I have that. To schools of thought where I want to be both accurate, but I also want to be in lockstep with my client, you know, so I think there are a lot of sort of on the ground conversations that happen.

But again, this will go back to strategy. And I think on a high level across. The administration, they should have a conversation about sort of like how they want to outwardly represent themselves, and then make sure that when we’re setting the stage to go into a classroom or, or on the playground, that it’s reflective of what they’re, they would like to represent their diversity and if it exists, I will be sure to capture it.

Tara: I think that relates back to the initial question about strategy to write like that. If that’s part of their strategy. 

Aubrey: Thank you. Yeah, I, I appreciate what you said there too. I think it’s important for them to be authentic about everything. Right? We having the conversation, but also, you know, you can’t create something that doesn’t exist.

So, as long as it’s part of a strategy, and it’s part of what they’re working on as a school, I think that’s. That then I mean, because it’s in alignment with what their values and mission are and what they’re doing for their school. And then you have those strategy sessions with them and then you can execute.

So I appreciate you all talking about that. I’m curious, you know, something we really didn’t touch on yet, which I think would be important is. Why photographs? Like, so often I do like audits or, you know, of like online presence and I get to the website and it’s a whole bunch of text. But you know, why, why should a schools consider photography and like the power of photographs when they’re thinking about their marketing, when they’re thinking about, you know, redesigning their website?

Like what, what’s the importance of that? I mean, what sort of data is out there and what do we know about how humans react to photographs? 

Rebecca: Well, you’re talking to a very biased source here, but I mean, photographs are incredibly powerful and valuable because they are, have the capacity to tell a story in a very rich multi dimensional way that sometimes words cannot, and they also have, you know, the power to arrest and grab your attention, so that.

You know, you think about why the lead photo on a website or a brochure or a magazine is, is incredibly important because it’s compelling and it draws you in. And then it allows you to then want to engage with the content and the copy. And so I think if you don’t have that sort of attention grabber, then you might wind up losing audiences, especially you.

You know, we’re now speaking to a very fluent, very visually fluent audience and thinking that, you know, for some of these, like you would also think about the student themselves, the prospective student as being a stakeholder and they want to see themselves reflected, you know, in, in these admissions materials.

So they could actually literally see themselves at that prospective school. So, I mean, I think. That it’s a missed opportunity if you don’t, you know, if you write off photography and visual storytelling and also just the learning environment is so inherently visual that it’s kind of like one of your most compelling assets, all the colors and the engagement and kids themselves are just incredibly.

Incredibly interactive and dynamic. So why would you neglect that as one of your key assets as a marketer? 

Aubrey: Yeah, I would also say that of our audience is getting shorter. So instead of being able to scroll through like paragraphs of text a photo can can really tell a story really quickly. I know there’s all those quotes out there about that.

But it’s really important. So, transitioning a bit, I’m curious, you know, for all those schools out there, they’re, you know, excited to capture the best photographs as possible, what lighting techniques or tools do you suggest to achieve vibrant and engaging images both indoors and outdoors? And on campus.

I think this is a huge one. 

Tara: Yeah. Well, yeah. And the lighting in schools. Yeah. Oftentimes. Yeah. Not the best lighting fluorescent lights over top. Yeah. 

Rebecca: It. Yes. I mean, that’s a great question. I wish I had like a great answer, but I think that is probably also one of the biggest arguments. To hiring a professional who’s going to be able to bring supplemental lighting into a situation notoriously like You know, favorite areas of school, like the science rooms and the STEM labs and, you know, some of the, these classrooms and gymnasiums have this really terrible fluorescent overhead lighting.

And then you also run into this mixed lighting situation where you have tungsten meeting fluorescent meeting daylight. And it’s tricky. And I mean, it’s one of those things Things where it’s tricky as a professional who’s been dealing with it for a long time. I mean, I. Bring supplemental lighting, like, depending on what the needs are.

Like I have small and medium sized kits, but honestly, anyone who’s really understanding what’s going on could also make do with the natural light. You just really need to position yourself. In relation to the light source and then sort of understand where your subject is in relation to the light source.

So I again, like I could give you some really granular tips, but I would say that That I think, you know, bringing in a professional who’s going to be able to deal with those things. A lot of times, I’ll also be perfectly candid that I find that putting a strobe, like a flash, in the face of a small child can be really distracting.

So I think also knowing when to not. Light a situation is very important also, and that needs to be uplifted because, you know, when we talk about, I love that, Aubrey, you mentioned authenticity. When you talk about authenticity, you really want a real moment, not when kids are like hamming it up or posing or doing really goofy things because they’re very self conscious because they are aware that they’re being photographed.

So sometimes, Being able to straddle the needs, like, you know, do I want to add artificial lighting or do I wanna really capture an intimate moment that feels,

I think back. Okay. Yeah, 

Tara: I can hear you. Sorry, let’s, sorry, I don’t know what happened. We’ll, we’ll cut this out, so, okay. I’ll make it out. I don’t know 

Rebecca: where it cut off.

I think we, you were talking about, 

Tara: You had, you were talking about when a stroke goes off, it can be distracting and knowing your audience. So you can say that over again and I’ll put a little 

Rebecca: note here. Sure. Sorry.

I think a big airplane is going to pass anyway. So, you can let me know. Do you want me to resume that thought? So I think that professionals and, you know, in my experience, I’ve also experienced the, the overarching need to turn the flash off because it can make especially some of the younger students very aware of the camera and aware of the presence and of that.

And then they sort of might change their behavior accordingly or become self conscious. So I think that they’re, I’ve very, very, very decisively made choices to capture, you know, really intimate, special and high energy, like beautiful moments between, you know, to students or an expression that would not have been able to cat to be photographed if I was flashing a strobe in their face.

So I would say above all else, like a beautiful, compelling image that you are able to capture with true authenticity is better than like a perfectly lit picture any day of the week. 

Tara: How about post production? I mean, do you, can you repair any of that with filters and things like that? Is that more of a thing now than it used to be?

Rebecca: Yeah, I mean, I think also having a keen sense of what is called white balance is really important. So that’s like understanding how to work with the mixed lighting and getting it to something that would be be, I guess, just not distracting and representative is really important. So there’s some stuff you can do in post production.

I don’t really believe in, like, fixing it in post because Again, my photojournalistic training is not, that’s not my first instinct and it’s expensive. And it’s an investment that I think you can, you can really front load a lot of that work by actually just getting it right in the camera. But yeah, there’s definitely some tools that Photoshop can, you know, and it’s getting better and better.

So there’s things you can do to get it back on track. 

Tara: Yeah, well, I guess moving on from that idea for schools who are taking their own photos and you’ve shared some good, some good thoughts and some reasons why you would hire a photographer, a professional photographer and outsource that. But what advice would you have for schools taking their own photos in terms of managing them?

Preparing for them and then even, you know, organizing them for use on multiple platforms, you know, kind of grouping them together or that type of thing. 

Rebecca: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I believe that, that, you know, it shouldn’t be only your archive should be built by the majority of the photos the day in day out one should be taken in house by teachers or, you know, communications.

folks or whoever sort of is the best equipped to jump into the situation to capture what’s happening. So I’d say there are a few things you can do if you have a single lens, you know, an advanced professional camera. I mean, a very helpful tip is First of all, getting in, like upgrading that camera.

I’ve definitely walked into very well resourced schools and like their cameras 15 years old. And I mean, that just with the technology being as it is and being and knowing like how important those images are, I would represent, I would recommend getting a, you know, a camera that’s like within that’s been manufactured within the last.

And then you know something really easy that you can do is upping the ISO, like making it more sensitive to dark situations. If you have to photograph or performance in a theater or, you know, a sports sporting event inside. That’s a really easy thing. Investing in a fill flash can help a lot.

Like clean up some of those dark spaces and then also just getting closer. I think that a lot of times people like either are nervous or they don’t want to interfere or, you know, I had this photography teacher was like, if it’s just use the foot zoom, use that foot zoom. Don’t stand in the back of the room and take pictures of the back of people’s head.

It’s like, That’s pretty obvious, but so many pictures wind up being like you need to get your, you know, on the level, like your, your camera should be in their eye, like eye level to them. Not from above, not from, I mean, from below. I mean, there, there are reasons why you would do that, but I think that you can really improve your photos by getting like in the action as much as possible.

With the actual your body versus the zoo. I think that that can be really helpful. And then to answer your question about how School should be organizing their photos. I mean, there’s such a wide variety of way of like approaches that I’ve seen and not, but I think school should organize their photos and they need to back up their photos and they need to archive their photos because like all of us, it’s not when you experienced it.

It’s not, if you experienced a data loss, it’s when you experienced a data loss. So if you don’t have all that backed up, I still have schools like two years later that are asking me for their pictures. And I mean, I have them because I have a data management system, but they need something that every, you know, person who’s, who’s utilizing those materials can access.

So it’s not an undue burden on the comms department. So there are many systems out there, like some of my schools use metagami or, you know, final site so I just recommend like whatever is going to work and just making it. easy and universal for everybody who needs access. So it’s not like this one employee who then leaves the school and no one can find a single picture for a year or so.

Tara: And labeling them, titling them. Oh my goodness. IMG underscore 56732 is not going to help you. No. Trying to look for a photo. Yeah. 

Rebecca: Yep. Having a really smart. File naming system and putting meta, you know, key metadata points and embedding information is like. Very essential. 

Aubrey: Yeah. And tagging. I think there’s been a lot because I would just came from an interesting conversation with a whole bunch of small school leaders and they’re trying to find the perfect platform that allows both uploading.

I don’t think exists, both uploading, sorting, tagging, and then widespread usage for a lower cost. And there’s really not much out there right now. So. But it is important because they were saying, like, if you could type in sunset or, you know, football field or something and then be able to search. So it’s interesting.

I love the idea that you said that multiple people should access because it is so hard, especially in schools where people are transitioning in and out, you know, if someone leaves, where are the photos and can people. Yeah, 

Rebecca: you need like a clear workflow and, you know, like a. Like a hierarchy of right.

Cause it can’t just be one person managing all of that. That’s a really you’re, that’s really setting yourself up for disaster. So yeah, maybe they’ll, maybe there’ll be a solution. And I think since everyone is always wanting to talk about AI, I feel like that might be a place where for some of that searchable, those search functions, that could be a place where that could be really an asset, but.

I don’t think we’re quite there yet. 

Aubrey: Hopefully soon. Thank you. Shifting gears a little bit through the lens of our podcast, obviously it’s the mindful school marketing podcast. We talk about mindfulness and how it applies to independent schools. So, what does mindfulness mean to you and how does it apply to taking photos at four schools?

Rebecca: Well, I love that. Mindfulness does. I mean, I try to apply that to my personal and professional life. And with respect to photography itself, I actually just feel so richly rewarded in terms of mindfulness by my profession because I I’m so in the moment, like my camera and, and the, and what I am like sort of my contractual obligation as a professional coming into a situation is to just be there and like be a keen observer.

You know, and capture that content. And so what that requires is absolute full presence. I oftentimes leave like a full shooting day feeling like so exhausted and so uplifted at the same time, because I’ve fully. been immersed in this experience. And and so I feel like you have to have eyes in the back of your head and you have to be really highly sensitive in order to take it all in and be able to capture it and then be thinking, you As well as executing, but it takes you out of all your to do list and all of the other like nagging thoughts in your mind because you are just doing your craft.

So, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s my job. 

Tara: Love it. Thank you so much. This has been really interesting and helpful. And I know that you and I have started working together a bit. And so I know how much the photography means to schools for their marketing, right? So as marketers, you can’t do it without imagery and going back to Aubrey’s question.

Question about why photography, I mean, how could you not, it’s like, how could you not have a website? How could you not have photographs? If you have a website, I mean, and you don’t have good photographs, your website is not going to be a good website. I really believe that photography is critical, critical, critical.

So it’s been helpful to talk about it. And I love the little tips, the ISO thing. Don’t even really have a clue how to do that, but I’m gonna look it up. So thank you for sharing all that. We are now going to move on to our rapid fire questions. So if you’re ready, start with the first one, which is my favorite.

If you could put one book as mandatory reading on the high school curriculum, what would it be? 

Rebecca: Well, speaking from experience, I read the Bible as literature, the Old and New Testament. And I actually found Well, not scintillating content. It was incredibly valuable. I would, I would, I would put that on the high school reading list because it informs.

A lot of, of what of, of there’s so many iterations and so many plays on it and, and every single genre across every culture. Well, Western culture. So, but I think that that that was very helpful in terms of just framework of understanding some Western literature and religion, so the Bible, the Old and New Testament.

Aubrey: Thank you. What’s one app you couldn’t live without? 

Rebecca: LinkedIn. I really find it to be, I think there’s great content there and I, you can find me hanging out there and that’s about it. I’ve deleted all the rest of them. 

Tara: Good for you. I, I don’t even take the time to look at LinkedIn these days, but I but I see comments when they come in.

What are you reading right now? 

Rebecca: You know, it’s summer, so I’m just straight into my, you know, murder mystery. Novels. So I like to turn the brain off. I think it’s really important. So, and I’m an audio consumer, so I have many queued up. I’m also going to listen to Ellen Hildebrandt. That’s my you know, summer, summer guilty pleasure.

Just, I like to turn it off. 

Aubrey: That sounds amazing. What is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us with? 

Rebecca: I mean, just do what you love and that is so contrite and it’s been said so many ways by so many people, but I can’t imagine spending so much time in a profession. We work so hard in this culture and I You know, when our lives flash before our eyes, we’re going to have spent, you know, eight, nine, 10 hours a day in our offices or in our respective careers.

So just keep searching high and low until you find something that just really calls to you and brings you a lot of satisfaction because it’s, it’s important and that’s your time. And it’s like, that’s all you got. You got one shot. 

Tara: Excellent. Thank you so much. This has been great. Rebecca, where can people find you online?

Rebecca: Well, I’m on LinkedIn. I like to hang out there and I find it to be really an interesting place to consume content and post content. And then I also have a website, Rebecca droves. com. So, Hey, so much, 

Aubrey: Rebecca. Amazing. Really appreciate this conversation. 

Rebecca: Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. It’s been really fun.

Thank you. Bye.