109: Overcoming Overwhelm: Mindful Techniques for School Leaders

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Aubrey: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Burch. 

Tara: And I’m Tara Clays. Today I’m excited. We are joined by my friend Cheryl Fisher as a certified life and mindset coach and host of mind, your midlife podcast. Cheryl works with clients one-on-one and in group masterclass sessions to shift the narrative that tells us that we’re stuck are not enough to one that allows us to move forward towards self-belief and success.

She was a secondary school teacher for 12 years and absolutely loves working with education professionals. Cheryl is a wife, mom of two adult kids and a grandma. She loves reading Happy Hours, golf and Mahjong, and I can attest to also pizza. Welcome, Cheryl. Thank you so much. I’m happy to be 

Aubrey: here. We are so excited to have you on the podcast, Cheryl, and I know our listeners today are excited to hear some information and advice that you may have to offer.

So, um, we’re just dive right in. So, you talk a lot about shifting the narrative from feeling stuck to believing in your own success for school administrators, both man managing both children and parents. How can our listeners foster this mindset shift in ourselves and our teams, especially when facing pressures to meet enrollment and retention goals?

Cheryl: Woo. Isn’t that a loaded question? You know what the, I, I thought about this question a lot because spoiler, I did know about the question ahead of time, and there’s so many ways we could go about this, but I don’t want to give people a lot more things to do in your day that feel overwhelming. Like six things I have to do in the morning and 10 things I have to do at night, and I.

I, as Tara mentioned, was a teacher for 12 years, and I know how the days can be, whether you’re in administration, whether you’re in the front office, whatever it is, it’s a lot typically. So I think maybe some small tweaks are really helpful with mindset shifting. For example, one of the things I taught myself early on when I even started learning what in the world was mindset and why did it matter?

Is to just pause sometimes and ask myself, how am I feeling right now? Or what’s running through my head? Because when we get into a stressful situation, maybe we’re rushing to finish something or we’re feeling like we didn’t do something well, or somebody’s telling us we didn’t do something well. Then there’s always a something running inside your head that’s probably even worse in terms of being more critical.

And if we can recognize that, then sometimes we can go, well wait, what? Why am I telling myself that? So even just that recognition, so you realize, oh wait, no, like that’s not right. Why am I telling myself that I’m an idiot and I can’t handle this meeting? Of course I can handle this meeting, what is going on in there and just also know that’s normal.

Aubrey: Unmute.

Tara: I think a big piece of this is confidence. I think people have, um, I. Experience what you’re describing. I know that I have, but sometimes it’s really hard for me to do that pause because I don’t really have, I’m, I’m not in the mood or I don’t have the strength or the self-confidence to move into that mode.

So can you talk a little bit about confidence and how it relates to successful leadership? Um, but how you, how do you find it and maintain it in those challenging moments? 

Cheryl: Yeah, absolutely. In, in fact, I. Hopefully this isn’t too much of a, a sidetrack, but I was listening to a training recently on Mindset in sports, and they were saying, you just need to be resilient.

And I was thinking, well, how do you do that? And it’s kind of the same thing you’re saying, I I, you just need to be confident. How do you do that? So I think we need to give ourselves evidence that we are good at. Whatever we do, and our brains are wired to keep us safe and protect us, and they’re going to all, they’re as in our brains.

Your brain is always going to look for evidence for what you believe. So if you believe that you are good at your job and you’re going to be able to figure it out, your brain is always gonna be looking for evidence throughout the day that you are good at your job and you are able to figure it out. But if we believe in sort of the lack of confidence side, that we’re a little out of our depth, and I don’t know how I’m gonna handle this and I’m not good at this.

And I always make the same mistake. Then your brain, unfortunately is gonna look for evidence of that. And it’s not because you’re, uh, not good at your job. It’s because your brain is trying to keep you safe from historically a wild animal attacking you or something like that. And we’re not in that kind of situation, but what we need to do is feed our brains evidence.

We are good at our job, or we can speak to this group, or whatever the situation is, and that is a gradual confidence builder. So there’s things you can do. In fact, one of my favorite things is just to tell yourself whenever you get stuck, I can figure this out. Even if you don’t believe it, I can figure this out.

I always figure it out. That’s one of my favorite sayings. I always, you’re gonna figure it out. We can figure it out. When I started my podcast, I kind of told myself I can figure it out. You can also kind of start collecting evidence, and this is going around the internet, so, so if you’re listening, you may have heard this already, but if you.

Put a pad of paper in your bag or you open a note on your phone and when good things happen or when something happens that you’re proud of, you write it down and then occasionally you read that. It’s helping you to start believing that you actually, oh, look at what I did the other day. Oh, maybe I am good at my job.

It’s, you gotta change. Give yourself evidence that that’s the case. 

Tara: All right, here comes a Tara Tech tip tech tool. Uh, there’s an app called Day One Journal and it pops up and you can do that, like you can put little notes in it and it actually makes it like a calendar and it, if you have pictures that you’ve taken that day, it’ll bring the pictures in, it syncs it all together, so you can look back and it’ll say like, last year, it’s kind of like Facebook and it, and it’ll do like last year on this day or whatever, but it’ll pull in and it’s great because you can also do a voice.

Note on it so you can do it. Like, if I don’t have time to journal, I will use it to make a little note. Like, oh my gosh, I just heard this whole, you know, little group of birds singing in the bushes when I walked by and it sounded so spring, like, and I’m so happy. That’s all. And you just put it in there.

Um, or I just, you know, I just did a hard workout or whatever. So I’ve tried to. To get in the habit of using it every day for a little note like that. So it’s called Day One Journal. It’s free, there’s a, um, an app for your phone and you can an app for your computer and everything. So there you go. Oh my 

Cheryl: goodness.

I did not know that and I’m totally gonna get it. I 

Tara: realized that ’cause we share a lot of those tips. Yeah. 

Aubrey: Okay. I, I love that tip. And I also say, um, I have a sticky note on my screen that says similar to kind of. It’s all figureoutable, like, I think Maria fo yes Folio talks about that, but like, you know, we can figure it out.

I can figure it out. And then I also have an appreciation wall where, uh, my clients have written emails and stuff like that, so I have that right in front of me all the time to kind of, you know, so that, so that’s, those are, these are all great ideas I think for our listeners to kind of take and see what, find what works for you like, um mm-hmm.

In terms of building that, that confidence. For sure. Thanks, Cheryl. 

Cheryl: Yeah. Can I add one thing about Birds Song? Tara, you said something about Birds song and it’s interesting because there actually is scientific evidence that hearing birds song calms us. Even if you maybe just listen to a YouTube, like a SMR video with Birdsong, it calms the nervous system, which is kind of cool.

Aubrey: That is cool. I can imagine though. I’m always calmed when I’m in nature, hear nature sounds. So bird sounds, that makes perfect sense. Now, if we’re speaking about calming, uh, that leads us into another hot topic here. Um, you know, burnout. So obviously schools are, I mean, you’ve worked in a school, I’ve worked in a school.

We’ve all worked and seen school leaders, um, navigating the interesting environments and challenging sometimes challenging environments of schools. It’s often high stress. Um, so burnout is real. So what are some simple practices that, uh, administrators can implement during a busy day to manage stress and maintain a sense of grounding?

So. 

Cheryl: Also big, big, big question. Let’s see, where am I gonna go first? So one of the things, one of the traps I think that we fall into, and I’m gonna say in schools, but I don’t want it to sound like I only think this happens in schools. It just was my experience is we fall into the trap of saying that we’re venting.

And that’s healthy. But getting into this habit of just talking with everyone around us all day about the things that are going wrong and complaining about this or that meeting and complaining about the copier is broken again and complaining about, you know, I don’t have time to eat my lunch or whatever.

And it’s, we don’t even think we’re complaining sometimes. And it’s just kind of how we talk. And if we take it bigger than schools, it’s I, oh, the traffic was terrible. Oh, look at this weather. It’s awful. And that’s just how we talk. And while changing this habit is not going to solve a feeling of burnout, if we could change it now, it is going to help us enjoy the day more.

And. I figured this out years ago when my husband was asking me why was I doing this side business I was doing. ’cause all I did was complain about it all the time. And I was shocked because I did not know that I was complaining about all the time. I was just talking and then I started listening to my conversations and it was always this went wrong and that student and that parent and the traffic and the weather, and this is just how we talk to each other.

But the problem is your brain is hearing that and it’s thinking that all day everything is a problem and annoying and going wrong. And so it took me a while to change how I was talking. And in fact, there was sometimes when I thought, I don’t even know what to talk about because I’m so used to just complaining about the copier being broken.

But if you can switch that and you can have a couple things in mind. As far as topics, you might wanna talk with people around you about what are you doing this weekend, or isn’t it a beautiful day? Or not glossing over everything, but just catching yourself when you kind of head down that path all the time as a habit really helps.

And if I may interrupt me as needed, another way to. Kind of slow. Your role towards burnout is something that I learned from a woman named Jen Liss, who was on my podcast ages and ages ago, but I wanna credit her for this. She said, in every job, in every task, in every whatever that we have to do, there’s probably something that you like.

Maybe it’s one little aspect of it. But what is the thing about your day that is fun for you? And I was like, Ooh, in a job, is there always fun? And she said, okay, switch the word. What is in your day that you’re enthusiastic about? Maybe there’s just one thing, but if you can start recognizing that, oh, I, I kind of like to do this part of my job, or I’m really enthusiastic about that part of my job, then maybe you can start sprinkling in a bit more of those things gradually.

And focusing a bit more on that and it helps as well. 

Tara: Thank you. That’s, I think, easy to say and sometimes hard to do. Right. Um, can you talk to us a little bit about any specific techniques? ’cause I know you have some to approach sort of this calm, this calmness and finding these, this positive, uh. This positive perspective on things.

Cheryl: Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, changing my habits on everything. I was just saying, took some a couple years I would say, and I still don’t always do it right and nobody’s gonna always do it right. And the also the goal is not to just be skipping through tulips all the time. There’s hard things and we have to recognize the hard things.

And that’s probably another part of the conversation, honestly, about. Dealing with those feelings and not just shoving them down. But let me actually answer your question. So one of the easiest things to do is change the way we’re breathing. And when I first learned this, I, I kind of was like, what, what does that matter?

Like I understand I should get more oxygen, but why would that matter? So there’s a lot of different breath work techniques out there, and if you’re listening, you could certainly dive into breath work further than what I’m gonna say. There’s many different ways to do it, but the key is if we can breathe more deeply, and I’ll give you an example in a second, then not only are we giving our cells, our bodies, our cells more oxygen, but we’re also kind of speaking to our nervous system and.

Calming it down. And what happens with our nervous system is when we get stressed, we get into what’s called the sympathetic nervous system, which you probably would’ve heard of as fight or flight, and it’s actually fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. Which is a little hard to say, but that’s when your body is stressed.

It’s releasing a bunch of cortisol. It’s not digesting anymore, so your whole gut health kind of just stops and you’re trying to figure out how to get out of a difficult situation and you’re not breathing as well. So if we start to breathe more deeply, then we can work our way out of that. Nervous system into a parasympathetic state where our gut is working properly, the cortisol levels are coming down, we’re getting oxygen to our cells, to our brain, and you can actually think better too, and maybe problem solve your way out of a situation.

So the easiest way to talk, the easiest way to practice this is sit and just take a breath. And see if your, your diaphragm, your stomach is actually coming out when you breathe in because when we’re taking shallow breaths, it’s just your chest. It’s just kind of a little bit of chest movement. Your lungs obviously.

But what you want to calm your body down is for your whole torso, basically to expand when you breathe in all the way to your stomach. And by the way, the reason your stomach will come out when you take a deep breath in is because your lungs are expanding so much is kind of shoving everything else out, which I never realized.

So take a couple seconds and do a long deep breath and hold it for a couple seconds. And then just let it out. And as simple as that is, it kind of interrupts all the fight or flight stuff and helps your brain to start kicking in with, okay, how can I problem solve this moment? Or, okay, maybe I am okay right now.

And one of my suggestions is to have. Maybe a trigger because as you said, these things are all easy for me to say and they might be challenging to do, but have a trigger situation that reminds you to take a breath. And if you think about, people used to say, put a rubber band on on your wrist and snap your wrist to remind yourself of something.

Maybe the trigger is when you walk through a particular doorway at school and you walk through that doorway and that reminds you, okay, just deep breath. Okay. Or you go up and down the stairs or some, some aspect of your day or you’re just logging onto your computer, whatever, where that is a trigger to remember.

Lemme just pause and take a deep breath. It’s surprising how much that actually helps.

Aubrey: I can imagine. I mean, as someone I, I. I have to remind myself to do this all the time because you find yourself holding or like holding back your breath and you don’t even realize it. Um, especially if like I’m reading a, an email or it’s like. Or like checking the news or something. I’m like, ah. And like I, I need to remember.

Okay, so I love the trigger thing. Like I’m, I’m imagining like I’m thinking of my school leaders I talk to. It could be like before you check your email in the morning. Mm-hmm. Like you get in the office setting the tone for the day. It could be in between meetings, like mm-hmm. There are many ways that you can just queue yourself up to implementing this really kind of.

Simple thing that will help you feel better during the day and be able to navigate that. Um, thanks Cheryl for sharing that. I think that’s something that people can easily implement and can make a huge difference. I know when I learned to breathe better, it definitely, it shifts just the whole way you feel your whole body.

Mm-hmm. And you don’t realize just how much you’re holding in. Um, 

Cheryl: absolutely. And maybe it’s even a post-it note. You mentioned a post-it note before. Yeah. Maybe it’s a post-it note on your computer monitor that says deep breath. You know, the, I love post-it notes. Maybe that would work too. I’m a big 

Aubrey: fan as well.

Um, great, great idea. Now I, I’m curious, you know, we talked about breath work. Um, and, and how that can really change how, how people feel. Now there’s another technique, um, that I’ve heard about in the space, but I’m not sure if all of our school administrators have, have heard about it. It’s tapping. And is this something that perhaps school leaders could implement to, to help them stay balanced, um, while they’re, they’re navigating these, these challenges in their schools and their personal lives?

Cheryl: Yes, I, I, I love tapping and I’ll, I’ll give you kind of the simple version and then a, a peek into the more complex version maybe, so that people can decide how curious they are. Maybe that will be a way to do it. So. Tapping sounds at first when you’re first introduced to it to be quite a woowoo thing.

How could this possibly work? Because we literally mean tapping on certain points of the body, and it’s the side of your hand. It’s points on your face and head and your collarbone and. Maybe when you hear that, you think, well, how, what? How could that possibly make a difference? But they are acupressure points and so if you are familiar with acupuncture or acupressure.

It’s the same thing, but studies have found that even simply tapping, and by that I literally mean I know you might not be able to see me if you’re just listening, gentle tapping with a couple of fingers on whatever that point is. It it, it’s called also emotional freedom technique, EFT, that’s another word for tapping.

The idea is to kind of get rid of any blockages. Of emotions or of energy that are stuck inside our bodies, which is how it becomes a calming thing. Because if, if you’re, you’re upset about some, I don’t know, problem, you had meeting, you had, whatever it is, there’s, there’s a lot of emotion typically running high, but maybe you’re not wanting to let it out.

You’re kind of holding it in and the energy flowing through your body, which is always flowing, gets stuck. And then sometimes we hold onto that for days and days and days and days, which is not healthy either. So the idea in its most basic form is that tapping on these acupressure points help that flow to start and what it helps us to release emotions in, in really a simple way.

So the easiest, easiest thing to try. Especially if you are maybe not sure that anything I’m saying is going to work for you is one of the to points is the side of your hand, either hand, uh, the karate chop point, sometimes we call it. And in any situation where you’re feeling upset, you could simply be tapping on that point of your hand, just gentle rhythmic tapping and you don’t even have to be doing anything else.

Yes, in a formal tapping, you would be saying things and I’ll, I’ll show you what that looks like. But even this sometimes is calming, and if you can do it without people looking at you like, what in the world is she doing? It can be calming, surprisingly so. So there’s one easy thing to try. Informal, more formal tapping.

What we do is we go through the acupressure points in order, which is points, uh, at your eye, three points around your eye, under your nose, under your mouth, collarbone, and then crown of the head and we’re saying. Kind of the way I like to do it is what’s bothering me. So I might be starting by saying I’m really frustrated about the meeting today, and then I might be saying a couple of other things.

You know, I can’t believe that I was put in that position and I don’t know where I’m gonna go from here. And somewhere in the middle of that, it starts to feel a little bit better because the emotion starts to flow. Then maybe we can go another round. Like, well, okay, but I think we finally reached a resolution or maybe I know I can talk with that person tomorrow.

And we gradually, gradually can start to turn it around because you’re releasing those emotions and, and you can start to think of, okay, how could this be different and better? And that’s the shortest explanation ever of something like tapping. But maybe it makes you curious to find out more. 

Tara: It makes me super curious, and I’ve heard you talk about it before and I haven’t done it, but I was just tapping my hand and I was thinking about yesterday I was feeling anxious and stressed and I was in the store and I bought a bag of jelly beans, which is like my go-to thing.

And I think that I should be tapping instead of eating jelly beans. I’m gonna try that next time, um, and uh, see if I can better manage my health by doing something that’s not destructive. And. It doesn’t give me a sugar headache. Um, I love this ’cause we’ve talked about some, really, some techniques that I think we’ve, some people may have heard about.

Tapping is, I think, not as well known as breathing. Certainly we hear about breathing a lot, but I know there’s one more topic that I’ve heard you talk about on your podcast, um, kind of recently, I think it was about grounding. So this is another technique. Um, so I think we’re doing a good service here and sharing all of these different ways that people can manage the stress, overwhelm, burnout that we’ve talked about.

And I just, I love this kind of stuff. It’s a nice break from our business marketing, so I’m so grateful that you’re here. So tell us a little bit about grounding. 

Cheryl: Absolutely. And in fact, as we speak, I’m not gonna pull it up and show it to you, but I have my feet on a grounding pad under my desk. Uh, so it’s kind of funny that we ended up talking about that.

So grounding is putting our skin usually feet, but whatever, uh, touching the earth. And that is because we get. Antioxidants, not antioxidants. The opposite of that. Free radicals in our body and they have a charge to them and the earth has ions that we can absorb from the earth that balance out that charge.

And again, it sounds like what, how, what? But scientific studies have shown this to be true, so. If you walk around in bare feet in the grass, for example, or imagine how much you might love the beach and I’ll grant you, not everyone does, but a lot of people love the beach and there’s two reasons for that.

One is usually the sound and the water. I. But the second one is probably, maybe you don’t even realize because you’re grounding on the sand the entire time you’re there, or a good part of the time you’re there. And grounding helps reduce inflammation in our bodies, so it won’t necessarily make you suddenly feel happy and calm, however.

It’s a really good thing for long-term stress because long-term stress creates inflammation, and inflammation is the basis of almost every disease that we end up with in life. And so the more we can reduce that, the more we can neutralize those charges that are in our body, the better for us in the long term.

So the best way to ground is to be outside walking around with bare feet or maybe having your hand on the ground or whatever is appropriate in that situation. But of course right now we were just talking before, it’s chilly. I don’t wanna go outside in my bare feet. So the grounding products that are coming out on the market, I cannot speak for all of them, but.

Most of them do actually work. ’cause what it is, is I have a mat under my desk right now, just like a rubber mat is what it looks like, and it has a wire attached to it that you plug into the third prong of your outlet. It’s not electrical, it doesn’t plug into the main two prongs, but the third prong connects to the ground of your house for.

Safety reasons. And so you’re connecting to the ground, in the ground in that way. So the drawback is I’m not out in nature and I’m not getting the bird song and the beauty of the trees and the fresh air, but if I can’t get that, then there are ways to do it otherwise, and it is really positive for our health.

Aubrey: I love that you’re talking about this because I am currently standing on a grounding mat and I have one on my bed too. I love it. I was like, the winter God did me in. I’m like, oh my gosh, I’ll do anything. So I got, I got grounding mats and I also will say, um, it was recommended like anytime my children have like I.

Having meltdowns or something like that. I’m like, go stand in the grass. Like go outside, stand in the grass, like roll around. Like just, just be one with the, the ground and it, it, my daughter especially has found that to be very effective. Um, so I really appreciate you bringing up grounding. ’cause I’m thinking about all those school leaders.

Like, I remember when I worked in a school, we try to get outside, like during lunch break or something, but sometimes you got tied to your desk and you just couldn’t. And I think the grounding mats are like. I’m not, you know, endorsing any, anyone grounding that or anything. But like, I think that could be a, a really good way to kind of get that grounding in if you’re not able to step out during the day.

’cause even though our best intentions, I remember working to school, we’d be like, we’re gonna do the walking lunch group and then like that fell apart like a month and a half in the school. 

Cheryl: Yeah. 

Aubrey: Um, so thank you for bringing up grounding. Really appreciate that. Um. I’d like to transition us to a question we ask.

I mean, we are the Mindful School Marketing podcast, so we do talk about mindfulness, and this is very applicable I think in this session in particular. Um, like I’m curious, like how do you define mindfulness and how do you apply it, uh, to your work and perhaps how people can define it, apply it to school?

Working in a school. 

Cheryl: It’s a great question and I, I’m glad you’re asking because I think this is a term that kind of overwhelms people and they automatically think about, in my experience, meditation and a lot of people will immediately go, oh, well that’s not for me. That’s not just what mindfulness is.

Meditation is a great thing, and that might be a piece of it, but I would explain mindfulness as trying to be present right now. In where you are and what you’re doing, and we often aren’t, and we don’t necessarily realize that. And so it’s, it’s quieting some of the voices that are worried about what happened this morning or what’s gonna happen later.

And it’s just doing the thing you’re doing right now with the intention of enjoying it or doing it well. And that’s all, all letting go of all the stuff. And so there’s a lot of techniques, some of which we talked about that can help you learn how to do that better. But that’s what mindfulness means to me.

Tara: Thank you. Makes sense to me too. I. We love talking about mindfulness, and now we’re gonna go into our rapid fire questions, and I know you’re a reader. So the first question is my favorite. We have a good reads list. If you could put one book as mandatory reading on the high school curriculum, what would it be?

Cheryl: Okay, so this question is interesting because I, I do have an answer for you and I doubt it would ever be on the curriculum. But I still think it would be good. So there is a book by Jen Sincero called You Are a Badass. And if you’re into anything mindset related, you will know this book. ’cause I see Aubrey nodding.

It’s fantastic. And the reason I. Say this book is because if you never were really exposed to any of this about going for things and, and believing in yourself and being in your own power, she says it all in a way that I think anyone can absorb even a high school student. 

Aubrey: Yeah, I’ve read it and I, I actually listened to the, I thought the, um, I listened to her audio book and it was hilarious.

Uh, I feel like it’s easy read, so. Mm-hmm. You can, you can learn all the things and it’s an easy read. It’s so funny ’cause my children pass by my bookshelf where it’s on and they’re like, mom, that book has a no no title. Like. I’m like, well, sometimes people title their books to, you know? Yeah. That’s the one 

Cheryl: problem with being on the curriculum, isn’t it?

Aubrey: Um, but a great, great book recommendation. Thanks for, we’ll add that to the Good Reads list. Um, what is one app you couldn’t live without? I. 

Cheryl: Again, I struggle with this question a bit, but I’m gonna give you an answer you might not expect. It’s my MAPS app. I love my Maps app. I am a map nerd and absolutely when I was younger was always getting out the paper map and looking at everything.

I love maps, but oh my goodness, everything is so much easier now. And I’ll talk about travel with my husband and we’re like in the app. Where’s that? Where’s that? Where’s that? I love it. 

Tara: Okay, perfect. I love maps too, although we have a debate about which maps apps, it’s the Google Maps or the Apple Maps or the WA app or whatever.

But anyway, that’s for everybody else to decide. Next question, what are you reading right now? 

Cheryl: I’m reading two things, and this is commonly true because it’s often a novel with a happy ending. ’cause I feel strongly that I want to enjoy my reading and have my happy ending. And I’m also reading, uh, always some type of.

Personal development book. So I’m reading, uh, the Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins, which is fairly new and is really good. And I’m also reading, and I was just looking at my paper ’cause I wrote down the name of it and now I can’t remember. But, uh, Ellen Hildebrands latest book. Oh, Swan Song, that’s what it’s called.

Yeah. Both at the same time. 

Aubrey: That’s awesome. I too like to balance my meaning because. Sometimes I’m the mood for that and sometimes I’m the mood for this. Um, yeah, I’m on the library waiting list for that. Let them book, but my friend nicely summarized it to me on the walk, so I feel like it’s, it’s a good book, so I’m excited to hear your take on that as well.

Yeah. Um, what is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us with today?

Cheryl: I think that. My, my biggest piece of advice is to trust yourself and trust your instinct. You are almost certainly smarter and more powerful than you think, and you’re probably making decisions better than you think, and you’re probably just generally more fabulous than you think, and I bet you your friends will tell you that.

And if we can. Learn to kind of hear our gut, our instinct, our intuition, and trust that it’s almost always right. So listening for kind of your own gut instinct and trusting yourself and knowing that, yes, you can figure it out. That’s my advice. 

Tara: Perfect. Thank you. I love that. That gives me a little boost.

And you’re, you’re always, you’re, you always have great tips and advice and I just appreciate you joining us today and sharing some positivity and some ways to feel good about, just about our, our daily days and some that can sometimes not feel so positive. So thank you so much. Where can people find you online, Cheryl?

Cheryl: Thank you for asking that. So I’m gonna keep it simple and say, go to my website, which is cheryl p fisher.com, and you can find my coaching information there. The books I recommend and my podcast guests have recommend as well as the podcast. The podcast also has its own website, mind your midlife podcast.com, but you can get there from either one and find me on Instagram too.

I love to hang out on Instagram, and that’s Cheryl P. Fisher as well. 

Aubrey: All right. Thank you. Thank you, Cheryl, so much for being here today and sharing such wisdom with our listeners and some practical tips that they can implement. 

Tara: Thank you for having me. Thank you. Bye-bye. 

Aubrey: Bye.