74. What Schools Can Learn From the 2023 Niche Marketing and Parent Surveys with Angela Brown

The following content has been automatically generated by an AI system from the audio recording of this podcast. We cannot guarantee the accuracy, or completeness of the information provided, and we apologize for any errors.

Tara: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Tara Clase.
Aubrey: And I’m Aubrey Bursch. Today we’re joined by Angela Brown. Angela is the manager
B2B Brand Strategy at Niche, where she supports content and partner engagement strategy at
Niche’s work with K 12 and higher education institutions. Before joining me, she was Director of
Marketing and Communications at Flint Hill School, a pre K through 12 co ed day school outside
of Washington, D.
C. In addition to developing research and content for Enrollment Insights, Angela is a frequent
conference presenter, guest author, and podcast guest. Welcome, Angela. We’re so excited to
have you back on the
Angela: podcast. Thank you. I’m glad to be back. I’m really excited about this.
Tara: Yes, we are too. We love spending time with you.
Um, and we’re really looking forward to hearing about the results of your recent, the recent
surveys from Niche. Um, you’ve got a parent survey and a state of the enrollment and marketing
survey. So can you tell us a little bit about the survey and the data that it. Is designed to provide
for independent schools.
Angela: Sure, sure. So I’ll start with the parent survey and we actually made a very intentional
decision this year to switch the order of those surveys because what I have found to be true in
the past is that there can be. A little bit of a gap between what parents tell us they want and what
schools are actually doing.
And so we thought it would be helpful to have the parent survey come in, come out first one so
that we could do that comparison. Once the state of enrollment marketing survey comes out, but
also just to have it a little bit earlier in the school year so that it can be more actionable for, for
people working on the other side of the desk.
And so the parent survey is an annual survey of K 12 parents that looks at how they search for
schools, how they chose schools coming into the current school year. So it’s very current. Um,
and in this case, it was families who chose new schools for their for the fall of 2023. So it’s very
fresh rerun it.
In the summer after they’ve made their enrollment decisions so they can answer things very
accurately. And typically we have between one and 2000 respondents and it’s a combination of
niche users but also people that we connect with through. Advertising social media posts and
posting in parent forums, um, which interestingly we have found to be very, very active for this
purpose, especially for the parents of younger children.
And then the state of enrollment and marketing survey is our professional survey that we also
do every year. And that looks at people working in admissions, marketing, and communications
in K 12 schools. And there’s both an independent and private school version of that survey and
a Public school, um, online public school and charter school version of that survey, which is
separate since, you know, the needs and responses are very different.
And the goal of that survey is for people to be able to do some benchmarking on everything
from headcount changes on admission and marketing teams. Um, it looks at. Trends with
inquiries, applications, attrition, yield, um, and then the different tactics that they’re using both
with more traditional marketing channels and digital marketing channels and what their budgets

are looking like for, for each of those various tactics.
Aubrey: I am so excited about this because um, I happen to be a big fan of these, this data that
you put forward because I think it can help our schools so much when they’re planning, um, just
sometimes we get in that, that kind of, um, what is that blind, you have the blinders on, you’re
just looking at your own school, you’re not seeing the bigger trends.
So I’m really excited to jump into, um, how we can apply these to schools. Um, so I’m curious,
you know, having looked through, and we could do this by survey too, but having looked through
those two surveys, the data that you collected, what do you think are like the top five trends that
have emerged from these surveys?
Angela: So I would say starting with the I can probably combine the two starting with the parent
survey. One thing that really surprised us this year was the role that admission events play in the
process for parents. We know that they’re important. But one question that we asked this year
that was new was about the first step that parents took to.
engage with the schools that they considered for their children. So we asked about inquiries, we
asked about email, we asked about phone calls, and a few other things, and nearly a third of
respondents said that it was actually attending an event. And I think that’s really powerful
because We tend to focus on all of the things that happened before a family shows up on
campus.
There’s a lot more of a focus on that. Not to say that, that people aren’t very thoughtful and
intentional about their admission events, but we don’t necessarily think of that as a first touch
point. We tend to think of those as being for people who are a little bit further along in the
process. So it was really interesting to us.
That for 28 percent of parents, I believe was the exact data point. That was the first step that
they took. Um, and so I think there are a lot of interesting learnings from that, which I know that
we’re going to get to. And then, um, another thing that we saw that was interesting is that there
seems to be a bit of a.
Reduced appetite, I would say, for rising tuition costs. So two things that we saw in this year’s
survey were, excuse me, and another question that we asked that was new, we asked, what
would cause you to take a school off the list as you’re going through the process? And for 20
percent of parents, they said that a lack of financial aid, um, would cause them to strike a school
from the list.
And then 60 percent of parents said that tuition was a deciding factor and where they chose to
send their children to school. And that was almost a 10 percent jump from last year. So that was
pretty noticeable as we compared it to some of the other options that we presented to parents.
Um, and then another big one is just.
The continuous increase in the role that children are playing in the school choice process. And I
think that that’s something that we all sort of know is happening. But it’s really interesting when
you quantify it, especially when you look at middle and high school age students, that’s when it
really starts to become a significant influence.
And so I think that’s something that’s really important for folks to be aware of. We’re really good
at thinking about what do parents need? You know, what, what channels are parents on and
how do we engage them? But. We haven’t quite caught up to the role that children are playing in
the process in terms of our, our outreach and engagement.
And then with the professional survey, I think some of the biggest things, um, were the
disconnect. I know we talked about that before we, we started, um, recording between some of
the marketing tactics that schools are using and what parents have told us that they respond to,

you know, that I mentioned that was part of why we changed the order of the surveys.
There still seems to be a lot of investment in things like, you know, yard signs and billboards and
radio ads and, you know, the. Fill in the blanks, best schools on earth issue for, you know, your
local publication. And even though those are things that can feel really good for current
members of your community, you know, who hasn’t heard from a trustee or an influential parent
who was at the dentist.
love seeing that ad that you spent thousands of dollars on, but that is not how you’re actually
recruiting parents, not even from a brand awareness standpoint. And so it’s interesting when you
see that gap between where the budget is going and what’s actually resonating with parents.
Um, and then another.
We saw that was interesting. We always ask, well, this is the second year in a row that we’ve
asked about enrollment priorities and student and parent experience is something that’s starting
to kind of rise to the top where it was a bit of a lower priority last year. And I think that just has
everything to do with retention, you know the schools that benefited from the pandemic and saw
these really big enrollment numbers now they’re looking around and saying okay we really need
to hold on to these families and how can we do that.
So, finally, you know, Customer experiences is part of my one of my love languages, as you
both know, and so to see that that’s starting to have more of an impact in a school environment
is really powerful. And so I I’m encouraged by that. Um, but I think it’s something that, like
anything else, you have to really approach with intention and collaboration.
You know, that’s not something that lives with the admissions office or the marketing office or the
development office. It’s actually your faculty who are on the front lines of delivering that
experience and making sure that you have them on board, that they understand what’s
expected of them and why that matters is something that’s really important.
Tara: Yeah, yeah, there’s so much information here. I was struck by it by a few different things.
Um, I want to talk a little bit about. The we’re talking about the enrollment and marketing right
now. Sorry, not the parent one.
Angela: Are we we can do both go either way.
Tara: Yeah. So I think like looking at the enrollment when one thing that jumped out at me was
37 percent of schools reported having zero full time marketing and communication employees.
That seems, I mean, it’s not necessarily surprising, but I guess what does that mean? How do
you interpret that?
Angela: I think it means a few things. Um, you know, and we, we asked about full time
employees. And so I think that just points to those folks who don’t necessarily have a dedicated
marketer, you know, especially with smaller schools, small religious schools that we work with.
There are a lot of those folks where it’s. You know, a one person advancement team, so to
speak, where you’re doing admissions are doing marketing and you’re doing fundraising.
Sometimes it’s a, you know, a yearbook advisor or an English teacher who’s moonlighting as a
marketer. And so I think that that what that tells us is there’s still A lot of room for schools to grow
when it comes to allocating dedicated full time resources to marketing.
And if you’re one of those schools that has not done that yet, My hope is that this survey will
show you that there’s some catching up to do. And it’s really difficult to remain competitive when
your peer schools have resources that you don’t. And one of the things that we saw this year is
that Um, pretty high majority of parents look at at least three schools.

I think it was close to a quarter that look at five or more when they’re going through the search
and comparison process. And so, you know, and this, this is something that everybody should
pay attention to. Um, every single type of school has. Competition. And so as you’re thinking
about that competition, if you’re the school that doesn’t have a full time marketing
communications resource, but you’re competing with schools that have one or two or more
people in that role, that’s a real challenge for you.
Because as everybody who has been in that position knows, it is a very Demanding job, even
under the best circumstances with the most resources. And so if you don’t have any, it’s not
something that you can do on a part time basis effectively. It’s not something that you can, um,
there’s no like gig economy really for that.
It really is. You either need to have a consultant, you know, who’s filling that role for you, or you
need to have someone in house, but to not have a marketing resource at all, I think is a really.
Challenging disadvantage.
Aubrey: Absolutely. And we see this a lot with small schools like it’s not you can’t compete on
one to one, then you have to say what are we dropping right or who are we burning out because
those are the two options right there.
You can’t, you can’t do it and what happens if we think about it. That same school that’s down
the street with more resources, probably what if they’re the same tuition price as you, but I
mean, there’s just so much there. So I’m so glad that you’re bringing that up. I think it’s such an
important thing to think about for schools, especially our smaller schools.
Um, I’m curious, like I really liked the, this, um, with the state of enrollment and marketing, uh,
survey the piece about surveying because. I’m big on like, hey, let’s collect some data, right?
That is so important to, um, to understanding as you know, because you just collected data for
this. Uh, but like for serving families, you know, during the admissions process, it, you, your
report says it’s catching on, but there’s still work to do.
So, um, I’m so glad that we’re hopefully moving in the right direction with that, but I’m still
surprised that there’s not more schools doing that.
Angela: I am surprised as well. It was encouraging to see that this is something that’s
improving, but you know, again, this is one of those things where if you’re thinking about
Competitive analysis, right?
And the type of intel that your peer schools might be gathering. Your parents may not
necessarily know that that’s happening in other schools, but that is data and information that
your peer schools are tapping into that you are not. And so when I think about some of the
questions that I hear on webinars and in conversations with folks about, you know, how do we
know who our competitors are or how do we do that kind of competitive analysis?
How do we know, you know, what other schools our parents are applying to and looking at? And
then once they start, how do we get information about that? And all of that can come from the
survey process. We still have more than half of schools that responded to this survey. That are
not surveying families at all, not for the admissions process, not during the admissions process
and not after they enroll.
And so that’s a missed opportunity, you know, and one of the things that I, I think this came up in
one of the professional groups that I belong to on Facebook, someone was asking about doing.
Competitive analysis. And I said, I don’t have a template for that. But one thing that I want to
caution you about is make sure you know who your competitors actually are, because I think
that a lot of schools make assumptions about who their peer schools are.

Um, sometimes independent schools don’t think about public schools as true competition, which
I think would be An error. Um, and you might be surprised who your who parents who did enroll
at your school and parents who didn’t view as your peers and so I think it’s important to gather
that information and there’s a couple of ways you can do that you can do that with an applicant
survey, you can.
Do that after the admissions process. You can ask people who went through the process and
declined your acceptance offer. Okay. Well, where did you decide to go? Um, and that can really
help to bridge that gap between any assumptions you’re making internally and what’s actually
happening in the market.
And that’s really important.
Tara: Yeah, I think, um, it’s, it takes a lot of, uh, Energy and, um, I think it’s a challenge to reach
out and get this information because oftentimes it might tell you things that you that make your
job harder, right? Like that is sometimes it’s better to just not know. Um, and in addition to the
challenge of actually doing the survey.
So I think what you’re sharing is a good impetus to. You know, that it’s not scary and that this
information can be really helpful. And I think, you know, some of the things that you have there
that you’re talking about in terms of competition, looking at at this particular thing, what 64
percent of parents considered three or more schools in their search process.
I mean, that’s, you know, That’s the significant that’s well over the majority. So, you know, that
kind of information is good to know. And then you look at who your competition is and what
they’re doing and all of that. So it can be super helpful. Um, how do you think, how can schools
use these trends, this information, you know, going forward, like I’m just saying, this could be
motivation to them that it’s not that scary.
Right. But how, what are some other ways that schools can use this information and these
trends in
Angela: 2024. Oh boy, there’s so many. Um, I will try to keep it brief. So our goal when we,
when we do these surveys is always to provide data that people can use to inform their strategy
for the remainder of this academic year going into the next academic year.
We’ll be doing it again in the summer, so there will be a brand new one coming out in the fall.
But in this case, I would say that schools really need to be thinking about their on campus
experiences, you know, the piece about the percentage of families who start there, I think is
important because what that means is you have to think a little bit differently about what those
experiences are like.
You can’t assume it. That these are people who have already spoken to an admission officer
and have already, you know, maybe received a view book in the mail. You know, these are
people who they looked on your website. They saw that you were having, you know, having an
open house in two weeks and they just showed up, you know, they may not even register.
They may just come. And so you, you almost have to have this sort of dual approach to, okay,
how are we going to engage with the parents who we’ve already been talking to, and this is their
first on campus event. And what’s our, our plan B for the parents who are coming in cold, we’ve
never seen or spoken to them before.
And now this is our first opportunity to really connect with them. So I think there’s just a little bit
of a mindset shift that needs to happen with on campus events. Um, and then another one that I
think is really important and we’ve talked about a little bit of this in the industry for a while, you
know, the, what does your tuition page look like and all of that, but I think there’s more work that
can be done around managing family’s expectations around tuition and financial aid, um,

because.
There seems to be a disconnect between how those decisions are being made every year and
what’s happening in the market. And, candidly, there is going to come a point in time, especially
in some regional areas, where you are going to run out of people who can afford to pay your
tuition costs. And so, in the absence of, you know, knowing that the marketers.
can’t do much about that process. And, and, and the absence of a, a very thoughtful strategy
around, um, what your pricing model looks like going forward. I think the short term solution and
the simpler solution solution is just to do a better job of managing family’s expectations and also
making sure that all of the touch points that they have with you as they go through the
enrollment process, reinforce value.
That’s a really, really big thing. You know, people are willing to make sacrifices for things that
they think are valuable. And. Reinforcing that value demonstrating that value is something that
happens with the very first touch points that you have with a family, it could be on campus, but
that’s something to be aware of.
But even as we’re thinking about things like tuition and financial aid pages, the more information
you can provide the better it’s not just a matter of having a menu of pricing, but having
testimonials from parents. having more branded language that reinforces that value. It’s almost
like the price is an afterthought.
You know, they want to know what it is, but it’s another opportunity for you to tell your institution
story and demonstrate why they should choose you over someone else. And I think more
transparency around financial aid is, is a really big one, you know, a lot of schools might go. As
far as advertising the percentage of families they have who receive aid and stop there, but to the
extent that you can provide more transparency around the process I have started to see some
schools that say, you know, these are the income thresholds that receive aid and the
percentages for each you know the more information, you can provide.
Before they get all the way to the point where they get their award letter, the better, um, and
anything that you can do to simplify the process is also really important. Um, so those are a few
things that I would really focus on. And then. Really thinking about how you engage prospective
students in addition to parents and guardians.
I think that’s something that schools are still trying to figure out. We haven’t quite mastered that
yet, but it’s clearly important. That’s what the data tells us. And that means. Your engagement
strategies online might look different. You might need to have a presence on different social
media channels than you have in the past.
You might need to rethink your events. Having events that are student specific is a really good
idea because a 14 year old does not care about the same things that their mom and dad do.
You know, they want to see a different side of your institution. So it’s important to be really
thoughtful about that and how you continue to help the student to feel connected to the process.
And then as far as the professional survey goes, I think the biggest thing aside from really
connecting your marketing strategies to what parents have shared, they respond to are
interested in what influences their decisions. Communication is. So important and, you know,
that is something that came through loud and clear in the parent survey and some open ended
responses.
When we asked why parents left their previous schools, that was, that was the most common
thread and there were a variety of things that baked into that communication around, um,
student academic performance and needs, especially for families with. Students who have
learning differences, um, and just having that school to home connection is really critical.

And the more people who are involved, the more important it is to make sure that they all have a
shared understanding of what that looks like. Not all communication comes from the MarCom
office, you know, so you want to make sure that the experience that they’re having. With those
communications and the experience that they’re having with faculty, the experiences they’re
having with coaches, the experiences they’re having with other adults who are engaging with
them, there has to be consistency there.
And so that is something that I think is really important to think about and look at, especially
when it comes back to that family experience priority, you know, it’s all connected.
I’m so glad you
Aubrey: brought up all those topics. I feel like I was like tuition page. Yes. How many, first of all,
I would challenge everyone to go to like five different schools and look at their tuition and their,
uh, you know, financial aid and see if you understand exactly what’s happening there. Cause a
lot of times you can’t.
So if you can’t then. Then your prospective parents probably can’t either. Um, so thank you for
that. And I loved your talk about communications there. Cause you know, I’m a big fan of
communications and consistency across the board is key. Nothing worse than having like a third
and a fifth grader, and you’re getting two different forms of communication.
One’s high touch and the other is like non existent.
Angela: Yes. That that’s an important point too, to think about the different experiences that
families with multiple students might be having. That’s where having that, that training and that
shared internal understanding of what customer service looks like is really important.
Aubrey: Absolutely. Um, well, I encourage everyone to go look at these surveys because
they’re really important, but now we’d like to transition into one of our favorite parts of the
podcast. And that is like, as we’re looking at all this data, right? Around, you know, what parents
think what’s happening in marketing and enrollment.
Like, how can we, how can we like incorporate mindfulness into this? Um, I’d love to hear what
your thoughts are, Angela, on this.
Angela: Yeah. I mean, whenever we do a survey, um, we try to do it with the end user in mind.
Um, and so our approach and where I think mindfulness is. Relevant across the board is just. It
means giving yourself the space and time to be still and really thoughtful and focused about
what you’re doing.
And so, you know, with survey design, we try to think about what does the end user need to
know and how are they going to use the data? That’s something that requires a lot of time and
consideration. And it also means that the survey might evolve year after year, which is
something I think requires a really mindful approach.
And I think that that. Also is true when it comes to planning every year, like, as you think about
your strategic planning as a marketer or as an admissions professional, ideally, you’re doing
some of that work together with your, your fundraising friends. Um, but. You know, you want to
make sure that you’re making the time for that.
I know that when I was in house a couple of years ago, that was really hard to do. And I can
imagine it’s very difficult for people to take that space and that time where they block off their
calendar, they’re not in meetings, their phone’s not ringing, they’re not distracted and you can
just sit and really focus.

But I do think that giving yourself time for that deep work pays dividends later, you know, instead
of trying to kind of cobble together a marketing strategy with duct tape over the course of the
year, um, which I know can happen. It’s a very, it can be a very reactive role in schools, but your
life will be easier and it will be.
Much easier to in helping to elevate that role and help other people to see you as a strategic
advisor and partner. If you can create a thoughtful plan. So make that time. That’s what we do
when we try to develop our surveys and that is also what I hope people take going into the
summer when hopefully you get a little bit of downtime and you can do that.
Tara: Great. Thank you. So thank you so much. Um, we are going to move on to rapid fire
questions and we’ve done these with you before, but you have mentioned that you have
updated answers. So let’s start with the first one. What’s one book that you would recommend
for the high school curriculum?
Angela: So this one, it might be a little unorthodox, but I was thinking about a lot of The data
that I’ve seen both from our own surveys and just about what’s happening with Gen Z or late
Gen Z and generation alpha.
And there seems to be this post pandemic breakdown in the ability to engage in conversation
and to just put the devices away, get away from the screen and have. Human interactions with
one another. And so a book that I read over the summer that I loved, it’s called think faster, talk
smarter by Matt Abrams.
And it’s a book about mastering spontaneous communication. So things like interviews, but also
networking small talk. Um, and since that’s something it’s honestly for adults too, I think those
are things that are becoming a bit of a lost art. And so I think that’s a great book to add to the
The high school bookshelf.
Aubrey: That’s a good one. I’m so excited. We’ll add that to our Goodreads list. So, um,
everyone check that out for sure. What is one app you couldn’t live
Angela: without? So this, this is one that has changed as well. It’s the Peloton app. It’s one that
I, I keep coming back to it. They’ll take a break and then I come back and then I take a break
and then I come back.
But. Yeah. I start almost every day with the Peloton app. So that’s, that’s a go
Tara: to. You’ll have to share your username with us offline. Yeah,
Aubrey: we’re Peloton users. So let’s do that. Let’s all buddy up. Yeah.
Tara: I’m pretty addicted myself. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What are you reading right now?
Angela: Oh boy. So I haven’t started it yet, but a friend of mine recommended a book called
good strategy, bad strategy by Richard Rommelt.
I’ve heard. Since I had that conversation with her from many people that it’s a good one. So I am
excited to dig into it. It actually got delivered. I think Monday or Tuesday. We’re recording this on
a Wednesday for those listening. So I just had it dropped off and I’m planning to dig into it this
week, but I’m pretty excited about that.
That’s awesome. I can’t
Aubrey: wait to hear about that. If you recommend it after you read it, let me know. I will. I’ll put
it on my winter break list. Um, okay. So what is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us

with?
Angela: So this is, this is a little, it’s not necessarily directly related to surveys and data, but I
think it’s just a piece of professional wisdom in general.
And it’s, it’s a lesson that I personally had to learn the hard way. And that is just to take care of
yourself. Um, and so we’re recording this episode during the holiday season and. So many
people I know, especially women are just completely tapped. They are running themselves
ragged and there’s still a few weeks to go before, you know, things start to calm down a little bit
work wise and, and you can dig into the holidays, but you know, that can also cause a different
kind of stress.
And so I would say, Just like it’s important to take time for planning and heads down work, it’s
important to take time to make time, um, to take care of yourself and that could be, you know,
working out with an app. It could be, um, doing a meditation. I’ve become a big fan of meditation
recently, or setting aside a half an hour to jump in the bathtub, whatever that looks like for you.
It’s just so important to do because you only get one you and you only get one shot at life and
it’s too short to burn yourself out over things that don’t really matter.
Aubrey: It was a great piece of advice. Yes. Thank you
Tara: so much, Angela. It’s always a treat. Thank you so much for sharing time and information
with us.
Where can people find you online?
Angela: So if you are connected with me already, you know that I am obsessed with LinkedIn. I
am there all the time. So definitely come find me, give me a follow. Um, feel free to connect. I
love connecting with people in our industry. Um, the enrollment insights blog, I’m still popping up
here and there over on the blog with.
Webinars and more data blog posts, all that good stuff. Um, and soon enough I’ll be at the small
loot school leaders conference. So you can see me there. I’m doing a session on generative AI,
which is my new. Pet passion. Um, it’s something I’m really excited about and use every day
myself. So I’m really looking forward to giving folks some tips on how they can use it to ease
some of the burdens and stress that we talked about earlier.
Aubrey: Oh, that’s going to be awesome. I can’t wait. And if you don’t follow her on LinkedIn,
you definitely should, because I’m always like liking and celebrating her posts, you know, little
clap emojis. Cause they’re awesome. So thank you again, Angela for. Thank you for sharing
your wisdom and this data analysis with us.
It was fantastic. And I know our leaders will find it valuable. Have a great
Tara: day. All right.
Aubrey: Thank you again.