115. Turning Conflict Into Collaboration: Practical Tools for School Leaders with Bridget Johnson

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 Aubrey: [00:00:00] Welcome to Mindful School Marketing, your go-to podcast for personal and professional growth. 

Tara: We’re school marketers, business owners, and moms passionate about connecting other school professionals with tools and strategies for success. 

 Aubrey: We love solving problems, exploring new ideas, and thinking outside the box.

Let’s transform your school and life starting right now. Transform your school’s admissions and marketing with Inquiry Tracker. The ultimate solution for managing inquiries seamlessly. Discover how you can make your admissions process more efficient and effective with this leading solution.

Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Burch.

Tara: I’m Tara Clays. Today we’re joined by Bridget Johnson. Bridget is the founder of the Dean’s Round Table and Bridget Johnson Coaching and Consulting. She focuses on professional development for student life professionals, including deans of students, class deans, directors, and assistant heads for residential and student life. Welcome, Bridget. We’re so glad you’re here. 

Bridget: [00:01:00] Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate you guys. 

 Aubrey: Oh my gosh, we appreciate you and Bridget. I’m especially excited to dive into today’s. Discussion because it’s on conflict resolution, which we all know. Conflict resolution is an everyday part of our, our lives.

Every day, every day we can’t get away. So after seeing how much school leaders loved your session at the Small School Leaders Conference in February, I knew we had to have you on the podcast, um, because I know you, you have the tools and like some insight that. Our wonderful school leaders out there in marketing development, you know, and leadership can really take these practical tools and use them for navigating everyday conflicts.

So I really wanted to just kick us off by diving directly into a challenge that we often hear from marketing and admissions directors and independent private schools. Sometimes their project. You know, can stall like when a head of school or a supervisor or someone in a leadership team or a leadership position, um, gets delayed, whether it’s them needing more time to review materials or make a decision or provide feedback, and this can leave those [00:02:00] marketing admissions teams feeling kind of.

Stuck and frustrated even when they’re doing everything they can to move it forward. Wow. So how would you recommend, like, given that this is a, a scenario we hear often, so I’m mm-hmm. Looking for some tools here, but would you recommend leaders navigate this type of kind of situation and do so respectfully using strategies like proactive communication and solution focused approaches?

I know, you know, this is your field. This is, this is, you’ve done amazing work with this, so I’d love to hear your insights on this type of situation. 

Bridget: Absolutely. And that’s the thing that happens, you know, across departments. You, you’re waiting on someone and you’re feeling a little bit anxious ’cause you’ve got a lot going on and you can’t move forward.

You don’t feel like you can move forward till you get this information. And so there are a couple of things that I would suggest. One, you, you talked already, you already said it, you know, being proactive, establishing a clear timeline upfront. Like when you hand this off to someone, let them know you know, I need this back by.

And give them, don’t say in two [00:03:00] hours, right? Like give them some time and some runway. And have a realistic conversation about the timeline and, and confirm whether or not that timeline works for them. Um, and then from there, creating a structured follow up system like, and following up, giving gentle reminders.

Um, while keeping the process, moving a friendly check in, and then a more direct follow up, you know, whether it’s three, five, you know, seven days. You know, again, kind of working backwards from when you, um, need the information back. Also providing context on why you need the. Thing that you need and, and why you need it in that timeframe can also be helpful for the folks.

’cause if they don’t realize that you, this is a kind of a chain reaction sort of thing that you can’t move forward until this thing happens, um, is also super important. Um, and then try as best you can is to use that waiting period productively, like doing some other things in anticipation of getting that information back so you’re not kind of doing all the things at once.

Are there things that [00:04:00] you can do to kind of help yourself once? That you can slot that information in. And then, you know, at the last, lastly, I would say, giving yourself just a little bit of time or a window to have a, what I would call pro provisional, uh, approval system. So working with establishing parameters where certain decisions can move forward provisionally without having all of the information, all of the things upfront.

So can you actually, move forward with partial information and what that looks like. ’cause sometimes partial information is just enough for you to kind of move the project forward.

Tara: Thank you. That’s really helpful. I think it’s helpful just in terms of working with other people, not even, you know, just trying to avoid conflict and, and setting up a good process. Let’s say an admissions director feels their events aren’t getting the marketing support they need, and the marketing fee team feels stretched thin.

How would you advise leaders to use active listening and focusing on interest, not positions to find a solution? 

Bridget: It’s some [00:05:00] that’s really, that’s a tough one to be very honest with you because you definitely, when you’re coming at it from, you know, you care about your department and your position and so you wanna make sure that people understand that, you know, the admissions office really needs this.

Um, and sometimes that’s not necessarily the best approach. And so thinking about how you can come at it from a. Let’s work together as an organization and not saying that the admissions office needs this and the admissions or the marketing team needs this, and you’re not pulling your weight.

You understand how important this is for the, uh, admissions office. If we kind of take a step back and look kind of more, um, globally, um, about what’s needed, I think it’s super helpful. And thinking about how we can. All work together to achieve the goals that we all have. Um, and then just reminding people again about how we’re a part of a whole, um, and how these sorts of things have a chain [00:06:00] reaction.

And so, if the admissions team can’t get what they need, then who else is affected by that? And so, but I would, you know, I really say just kind of taking that global approach and actually taking the, the, your department particularly kind of at, not necessarily. Out of it, but kind of just pulling back and saying, us as a group need to figure out how we can work together to achieve the goals that we all have.

 Aubrey: Yeah, that’s really interesting. That is that shared interest piece. Like we’re all interested in getting this done. So how do we come together? Um, I’m curious, you know, I think we’ve talked in the past, and maybe this was when you presented to my small school solutions team but remaining neutral and objective during conflicts.

This is like key. ’cause having worked in schools and worked with schools like sometimes. You know, it’s not always that easy to do. Right. But can you talk about a little bit of a, you know, why this might be, you know, something that we might want to, you know, consider and how do we [00:07:00] avoid getting pulled in the emotional side of conflicts?

Oh, either. Passionate parents, colleagues, I mean, there’s so. Totally many different areas. 

Bridget: So, so many emotions, right? So little time. And so I think often what happens, and so I, before I even kind of jump into that, neutral is tricky, right? And so I don’t, you don’t necessarily have to remain neutral. Like you can have an opinion on something, but keeping the level of emotion down, being even killed as you kind of talk about that or as, as you kind of communicate to who.

Whatever party, whether it’s parents or colleagues and, and so not necessarily don’t feel like you have to remain neutral, but you do have to kind of get your arms around your emotions. So one, recognizing your emotional triggers, your yourself, and understanding what triggers you and knowing that and being able.

Practice self-awareness is super important and we don’t talk about that enough. We talk about that with students, but we don’t talk about that with adults. And so we need to [00:08:00] be model, trying to model that behavior as well. Right? And so not letting our emotions get the best of us. And so recognizing, having a little self-awareness, but also super important being, um.

Being sure. Or making sure that you can give yourself a, a bit of a mental pause. Like just I did, like, just taking a second to gather yourself. You don’t have to kind of jump right in. You can take a couple of deep breaths. You can count backwards from 10. You can do that in your head, maybe not necessarily out loud but, you know, giving yourself kind of a brief mental pause to say, all right.

This is getting pretty heated. I’m gonna just kind of regulate myself. I’m gonna take a minute. Um, before I respond, the next thing I would say is maintaining a fact-based approach. Uh, emotions can stir up a lot of things in us and we can think about how this made you feel or kind of what happened the last time, or what I thought about it.

But [00:09:00] we really just need to stick with the facts. And if we can do that, that’s really helpful. And then also thinking about your language and how you respond now, so you don’t have to be neutral, but neutral language is really important, um, when you’re responding. And so instead of, you know, kind of meeting people where they are, if emotions are escalating, um, you can say, you know, I understand that this situation is frustrating.

Admit that and not say, I know you’re angry, you’re always angry. Don’t, probably shouldn’t do it that way. So words matter during this time. And so acknowledging emotions is okay. Um, and trying to deescalate during that time is super important. And then, you know, focusing conversations on. Specific observable behaviors rather than assumptions and intentions.

We sometimes assume a lot of things, and that just can change the narrative in our minds. And, you know, our minds can do some really interesting gymnastics when we don’t have kind of the information to kind of close that gap. And [00:10:00] so we start thinking of things and we start spinning and turning things around.

Well, it might not be that at all. Um, but we didn’t take the time to kind of check ourselves, be again, self-aware and understanding those triggers, um, and realize that, Ooh, I’m starting to go into assumption land here and I need to pull back. And then, you know, if, if, if possible, developing a standard protocol for ha handling certain types of conflicts, certain types of scenarios.

Who can be, who’s in the room when you’re having these conversations? You know, do you give a cap or some of the timeframe? Like sometimes, you know, you have, you know, colleagues or parents who want to talk for like 90 minutes about something like, Ooh, we’re gonna just not do that. Um, we’re gonna. You know, kind of cap this conversation and say at the beginning, so it doesn’t feel like you’re cutting people off saying, you know, we’ve got 45 minutes or 35 minutes for this conversation, and at that point, I’m gonna have to go off.

I just want you to know that ahead of time so you don’t feel like I’m being rude. Because sometimes you, you want people to kind [00:11:00] of express their feelings and get their feelings out, but at some point you need to kind of cut off and, and move forward. 

Tara: Thank you. Yes. I’m thinking a lot about this because admittedly, I was just distracted at the beginning of this podcast by an urgent message that came through, and so it’s ironic that we talk about active listening and, and owning up to things and, and just being honest.

So I’m. Totally guilty of multitasking and, and getting pulled away. And I think we all are, I really appreciate this, like the absolutely. The, the, um, you know, the context in which this is happening is, is really helpful for me personally. Um, but let’s talk about in the context of an admission slump or marketing miscommunication.

One of your strategies is to identify root causes. How would you recommend that teams can dig? Deeper to uncover the real issues behind those types of things. 

Bridget: You know, the one thing I probably should have started with this is about, you know, establishing relationships is so important, like making sure that you get.

Uh, take the time to get to know the [00:12:00] folks that you’re working with and not just kind of, you know, know them, like, Hey, how you doing? But know a little bit more about them. Get, get a little bit personal, like, you know, how, how, how’d your weekend go? Or what’s going on with your family? Or is your, I saw you had to take your dog to the vet, your dog.

Okay. And so having some of that kind of relational piece is really helpful when you have, uh, disagreements or struggles ’cause. We can, we oftentimes can give people grace, um, in those areas or in those times when we know a little bit more about them. It’s really hard not to, if you just feel like, uh, they’re always coming in and like demanding things from me and I don’t understand, I don’t know who they are, and you haven’t, um, had the opportunity or taken the, the time to know kind of, kind of what they’re dealing with on their side of things.

So being curious. Um, and establishing a rapport, um, before conflict arises is really the first thing. Um, to be able [00:13:00] to have those candid conversation about the, what the root or what the real issue is, because you can say, you know, that doesn’t seem like I, you know, we spent some time together. We’ve worked together.

I know based on my experience with you, that this. Seems like there’s more here. And so can we talk about that? Would love to, you know, figure out how we can work together on this issue so that, you know, everyone feels good coming out of this conversation. Everyone doesn’t always win. Like, let’s be clear that’s not how life works.

But if we can come to a compromise where we feel like everyone was heard and understood, we understand, um, the reason why we’re moving forward in the way that we are. And, you know, think about how uh, we can do things differently, um, the next time or what will be helpful moving forward. 

 Aubrey: That’s so important and I, I’m thinking about, I was so guilty when I worked in a school of like wanting to get all my to-do list tasks done and sitting at my desk instead of wanting to go eat lunch with [00:14:00] like the faculty and staff and to go to all those, like we started a walking club.

Aubrey comes to the walking club and there were so many times I said no. When I should have said yes, because that is when, well, first of all, everyone needs to walk, but that’s when you have those 

Bridget: like relational times. Yes. Those are those relational times that are important. 

 Aubrey: Yeah, so I’m thinking as I’m thinking to our school leaders, especially our heads of school and stuff that are out there is like, how do we build that in?

Because that is so important and like. That because it if when you understand that maybe Josie over there, you know, just snapped at you for something, for a deadline that like maybe you’re like an hour or two over, but like you’ve explained why it might not have to do with your deadline all, there’s something else Josie’s husband’s sick like the dog, you know, had something like, right.

Yep. Something understanding. I think that’s so beautiful and so important for us. In leadership positions to understand and value, 

Bridget: you have to be intentional. You, it doesn’t just, it because we’re so busy, it doesn’t just [00:15:00] naturally happen. Unfortunately, you have to say, okay, today I’m gonna spend, you know, half hour, 45 minutes doing x.

And, you know, fill in the blank of what X is. That can be different on whatever particular day, whether it’s going for a walk or standing outside my office and you know, just saying hi to folks or going to an athletic part of an athletic event or you know, something that kind of gets you out, gets you talking to people and not just kind of behind your desk in meetings and like going through your checklist.

Super important. 

 Aubrey: Ugh. So true. And I think that’s also what sets us aside from like. ’cause if that school community is so important, we always say it is. And then, and then making it, making it happen. Right? Doesn’t happen. Making it happen. You making it happen. 

Bridget: Walk the walk, talk the talk. Right? 

 Aubrey: Uh, yeah. So important.

So this is kind of building on like that relational piece. Um, like as we’re, you know, looking at conflicts and boundaries, uh, amidst like multiple school teams. Like how can leaders establish clear expectations and professional conduct standards to create healthier [00:16:00] working relationships internally? 

Bridget: Well, so that’s, that’s a handful right there for sure.

But I think it’s about kind of what, how you set things up in the beginning. And so not waiting till conflict arises to talk about how you’re gonna manage conflict, but trying to have some of those, um, preemptive conversations about what the structure is like or what the approach will be like when we manage confidence like giving.

People, you know, a set of ground rules and accountability and saying, you know, we’ve discussed, you know, at the beginning of this school year, the beginning of our time together, how we’re gonna manage conflict, how we’re gonna make sure that we’re respectful to each other. We’re not gonna do personal attacks, we’re gonna deal with the facts.

We’re gonna. Apologize if we’ve done something that was wrong. We’re all human. We can say, I, ooh, I didn’t get that one. Right. We can do, we can have do-overs, right? And so we need to make sure that we give people space and the psychological [00:17:00] safety to do that because sometimes people feel like they can’t make a mistake, they can’t mess up.

It’s too high stakes, there’s too much going on. And if you are working in that type of environment. First of all, that’s really stressful. You’re, you’re operating at a, a level that you’ll, you never relax. And so if you can’t relax and you’re always high strung, then you’re gonna snap a lot. You are gonna be that person that feels like, like God, that person is always like on edge or angry and, you know, one little thing can set you off because you’re already operating at a high level.

So taking the time to kind of think about how we respectfully engage and civil discourse, for lack of a better term, ahead of time, um, goes a long way. And people don’t think, oh, that’s kind of cheesy, or, no, we’re adults. We know how to do this. Mm, we. Need some help. We need to exercise that muscle if we’re not using it.

And if you don’t talk about it, how are you exercising that muscle? Um, and then when it comes time to use that muscle, some of us are in atrophy [00:18:00] because we haven’t used it at all. And now we’ve got a really difficult situation that we’re gonna spend more time cleaning up on the back end, if you would’ve just spent some time on the front end talking about these things could help.

Tara: Yeah. Communication is so important in every relationship. I’m gonna ask you a question that we, we often wrap up with and it, it’s kind of a, a good segue from what you’ve just been talking about and everything you’ve talked about, which is mindfulness. Mm. You know, we are podcast is called Mindful School Marketing.

We like to talk about being mindful and everything that you’ve talked about really. You know, centers on that concept. So this may be a bit redundant, but but through the lens of this podcast, how do you define mindfulness as you know, in air quotes here, um, and how can schools apply this to conflict resolution?

Any additional thoughts that you have beyond what you’ve shared, which I think really does speak to this. 

Bridget: Yeah. And I also sometimes think it’s worth repeating. So I’m gonna say some of the same things that I said before because I do think it’s super [00:19:00] important. And so mindfulness, um, and conflict resolution means maintaining awareness of thoughts, feelings, and environmental factors without judgment and responding intentionally rather than reactively.

So making sure that you are kind of taking that pause and thinking about, okay, am I triggered here? What’s happening? Um, if I am, it’s almost like, you know, as decision trees if triggered do this. And so, you know, having those pause points before and, um, making, having, uh, important decisions or responses in those emotional situations.

But training your leaders to recognize stress responses during conflict. Again, we don’t do that enough and think about how, ’cause I have, I’ve asked people this question in coaching, like, can you describe for me physically what happens to you? Do you, can you feel it coming on? If you’re starting to get anxious or upset or frustrated, what does that feel like in your body?

Because if you can’t see it coming on. By the time it gets there, it’s too late, [00:20:00] right? It’s really hard to kind of put the toothpaste back in the tube. But once you have already kind of gotten to level 10, and so if you realize that level five or six that it’s coming, what are some of the things that you can do to kind of counteract that?

And so talking to people about what those things are and having self-awareness again, so important. And so, also thinking about. When you’re heading into particularly, um, difficult meetings or conversations, think about how you can kind of set the tone early and some mindful practice you can do.

Everyone just kind of take a moment to get kind of settled. A lot of times, especially in schools, you’re rushing in from one thing or another. Just let’s just take a moment here, um, before we kind of jump into the heavy stuff. Um, can also be important. Taking perspective. Like, you know, one of the things I like to say is sometimes your six is my nine.

Doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just a different perspective. And so if we always come at the conversation thinking that you have the right perspective or right [00:21:00] lens, that’s hard. Um, that’s, because we always, first of all, we want diversity of thought in our meetings and on our teams. And we wanna make sure that we are giving people the space to be able to express those things too.

Again, talking about psychological safety so that we can learn and grow. ’cause there may be some valid points from someone’s nine versus my six that hadn’t even considered because I was so focused on six, you know? And then I would say lastly, say, you know, when you’re thinking about or when you are kind of, he in a heated argument or disagreement, I would say, I won’t say argument ’cause I hope we’re not doing a lot of argument on our school campuses, but thinking about what assumptions you could be making or what could I be missing or what could success look like for everyone involved?

And, and thinking about that. I know that’s. It’s a lot of hard things to think of in the moment. Um, so maybe taking even just one of those could be helpful for you. But also I would say lastly is the debrief. And so if you’ve had this [00:22:00] conversation and you’re like, ah, did it go well? Or, oh, I know it didn’t go well.

Having a debrief with either some folks who were in the room, everyone in everyone in the room, or a, a trusted colleague to kind of, kind of go through what happened, um, in these high stress, high pressure situations can really be helpful in getting some perspective, um, and thinking about how to do things differently the next time.

 Aubrey: Yeah. That’s so good and so intentional. Right? I think a lot of what you said is intentional and practice like the, that doesn’t happen overnight, as you’ve mentioned. Nope. So, but so important. Such an amazing, you know, things that we need is people, humans, and also in school settings in every setting. Yes.

So thank you. Now I’m gonna transition us to one of our favorite parts of our program, and that’s a rapid fire question. Okay. So are you ready? 

Bridget: I’m ready. Let’s do it. 

 Aubrey: Okay. If you could put one book as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, what would it be? 

Bridget: [00:23:00] I like this question I saw, I was like, Ooh, this is fun.

And so, you know, right now, for me, top of mind, and I, you know, I mentioned it earlier, civil discourse and just being kind. You know, I think we’re kind of in a state right now where that’s not the priority. Um, and I’d like us to really be intentional about talking to students about that. And so there’s a book called Wonder, um, by RJ Palacio.

Wonder is about a student named Augie. Um, a boy with facial differences entering a mainstream school for the first time. And it explores kindness through multiple perspectives, um, and showing how small acts of compassion can really impact other lives. And so, just, you know, having conversations about being kind, being able to point to something back to students saying, remember when we had that discussion?

So I think this would be a great jumping off point for schools to just kind of think about kindness in their schools. I love that 

Tara: book that I read that years ago. No. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. [00:24:00] Yeah. So it’s beautiful. So thank you for sharing that. The next question is, what is one app you cannot live without?

Bridget: All right. So I was, you know, I was gonna be, you know, my mindfulness app is the one I can’t live without, but sometimes I do live without it. I don’t do it every day. So the one thing I honestly can’t live without I travel quite a bit. And so there’s an app called TripIt that I use that captures all of my travel pieces.

So whenever I make a reservation, whether it’s dinner, car. Plain hotel, it gathers in on one place. So I can see my trip at a glance and I’m not like trying to figure out details on the fly. It has been a lifesaver for me. I love it so much. Ooh, well I’m looking that up. That’s great. Necessarily thank q that’s, I’ve never heard of it in line with what we are talking about today, but it makes me less stressful, which I can come into meetings and not snap at people.

So, 

 Aubrey: uh, I’m adding that one to my, I mean, this is super helpful. Well, I mean, not only did we learn [00:25:00] about conflict resolution in this, in this, uh, wonderful podcast episode, but we also got this amazing app that I’m sure I will 

Bridget: do. It’s, I love it so much. I really do. 

 Aubrey: Oh, thanks for sharing. Okay. And next question.

What are you reading right now? 

Bridget: Well honest. Also, another point of, you know, honesty, I am, um, getting my master’s in restorative practices. And so, um, we wrapped up and actually about to start another course at the end of May. So I’ve taken a break from reading ’cause a lot of reading happened. But I will say the last book that I read is actually was related or a part of my course theory of Change was a book called Immunity to Change.

And that was it was a light bulb moment. For me, it’s by, uh, Robert Ke Keegan and Lisa Leahy. Um, and it really talks about the science behind change and why people have a hard time basically changing and like what the neuroscience is behind it. And it was really, I was like, I had no idea. [00:26:00] Um, and I actually just thinking about, you know, things that you wanna change for yourself and they give this, analogy about, or they give this example about like, they tested, there were 75 people who were told explicitly, if you don’t change your diet, you are actually not gonna be here very long. Right. And so, you know, the question is, you know, how many people actually followed the the, the, the new diet because they knew that that literally their life was at stake.

It wasn’t very many. Yeah. And it was, and it wasn’t because you know, they interviewed this one person in particular, he was like, well, I don’t wanna feel like, like I am, like sick or an invalid. So I didn’t want to, I didn’t wanna deal with it. I didn’t want pe people to tell me that I need to change my diet.

I didn’t wanna exercise because that mean that something was wrong with me. And I’m like, but something is wrong with you. You’re not gonna live if you don’t do it. But, you know, thinking how, getting into the. The mind frame of people and how they think about things, um, was really an eye-opening, um, [00:27:00] experience for me.

So I thought it was very interesting. Wonderful. Thank you. 

Tara: Uh, last question is, what piece of great piece of advice would you leave us with today? 

Bridget: Well, you know, I always say this work is, is challenging but also rewarding at the same time. But I also, you know, sometimes feel like we get into these modes or we feel like we have to do it all ourselves, um, and that we can’t kind of take a breath and take a step back or sometimes no is definitely a full sentence.

Um, so I would say a couple of things. One. Don’t feel like you need to do this work alone. You know, raise your hand for help when you need it, but also make sure that you’re taking time to take care of yourself. Because that means that if you can go in to these, uh, stressful times or stressful situations, less hot to triggered, then the better for everyone involved.

Because if you can keep a cool head, then you, hopefully the people in the room can match that with you. 

 Aubrey: Thank [00:28:00] so much. That’s so powerful. Yeah. I just think that’s life changing though. If we all came in with a calm demeanor to like work and did our own self 

Bridget: a little different. 

 Aubrey: Self care. Wow. Thank you so much Bridget for this.

I always enjoy chatting with you and this, I know our audience is gonna love this. Where can people find you and learn more about what you do? 

Bridget: Absolutely. And so thanks so much for having me. This is always, you guys are so great. I always love chatting with you guys and so you can find me. Dean’s roundtable.org is our website.

Um, you can email direct me directly at bridget at dean’s roundtable.org. Would love to hear from you. happy to be helpful in any way I can. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you, 

Tara: Bridget. Have a great day. Absolutely. You too. 

Bridget: Thanks, you guys too.

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