84. Using The Working Genius To Help You Work Better As A School Team with Miriam Stein

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Tara: Welcome to Mindful School 

Aubrey: Marketing. I’m Tara Clays. And I’m Aubrey Bursch. Today, we’re joined by Miriam Stein. Miriam is the founder of Saddle Rock Strategies and loves helping people get better at what they do. She specializes in enrollment strategies in schools and organizational health every anywhere.

Welcome Miriam. We’re so excited you’re on the podcast today, and I can’t wait to dive into this topic 

Miriam: with you. Hi, it’s so nice to be here. I’ve listened to your podcast and I know you both personally. I’m so honored to be here and excited to be part of this. 

Tara: Yeah. Thanks for joining us, Miriam. It’s great to see you.

And this is going to be a really fun topic before we get started. Um, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself beyond what, beyond the intro? Oh, sure. 

Miriam: Yeah. So I, um, I, I love helping people get better at what they do. I am, um, I’m an, an educator by training. I, um, after, after school, I knew I wanted to just like help people.

I went to social work school and then I actually got into education and I taught high school Jewish history for a while because I really wanted kids to understand how they’re part of like a larger story. They are not just high school kids in America, but they are connected to people before them and hopefully people after them.

That’s where I started. Then working in a school, I really fell in love with educational administration and like behind the scene logistics. And, um, and someone said to me, you should really be an admission director because if you want to ultimately be a school leader, like a principal that like became my dream job, they said, admissions is what really fills schools.

And you understand what happens behind the scenes. And I said, isn’t admission just tours? Guess what? It’s not! And, um, I ended up getting the job and I actually fell in love with admissions because it was this whole different side of things. And, um, and I, I did it for seven years at a pre K through 12th grade school of a thousand students.

Like, very high stakes, very intense, very busy. And I loved it. And about three years ago, um, I left the school and I, I opened my own consulting practice to help other schools with enrollment strategy, which I thought would be helpful for especially like smaller schools that maybe don’t have an enrollment director of who’s a veteran.

I could help them kind of close that experience gap. And then the more schools I started to work with, I realized, Hey, there’s like this real lack of professional training for school leaders. Like so many of them rise up through the ranks because of their expertise in education, but don’t necessarily know like how to manage, how to supervise, how to be business leaders.

And I, um, I really immersed myself in that world, learned a lot about it and find that I use my skills as an educator and like social worker and helping people, um, just like get better at running their school teams. And that kind of led me to adding that to my practice. And I love it. So I coach, I do enrollment strategy and also this internal organizational health stuff.

And I, I live in Silver Spring, Maryland. I’m a New Jersey native for anyone out there from Jersey. Um, and that’s, that’s me. I’m married. I have three kids and a dog. You may hear on this podcast. 

Aubrey: Miriam, I love hearing you talk about this. It’s like you are so passionate about what you do. It just comes through so much.

And you know, I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you over the past couple of years and seeing you in this space. And I, one of the things that I really enjoyed was seeing you present to independent schools on the topic of working genius. Which, um, we’re going to dive into, of course, um, and Tara and I really love using this podcast as a way to bring new ways for school leaders to collaborate, work better as a team and stuff like that.

So not just specific marketing, but like, how do you use these tools that we have, um, to help you in your roles? Um, so that’s why we’re super excited to hear more about the working genius model and also like how can schools benefit from it? Can you tell us a little bit more? 

Miriam: A hundred percent. Yeah. So I’m super excited when, um, when people ask for this, cause I feel like I haven’t worked at a school for 13 years.

It’s like, it is, it was the most intense job I’ve ever had. And people who work at schools give at least 110 percent every day. And every day is like a freight train. It’s so busy. So much is asked of us and our work is so important and holy because we are raising Children like it’s so important and we know that there is so much burnout out there and frustration and it’s because we’re so passionate like we are fueled by our passion and we’re running on fumes and when I learned about this model of recognizing that like it doesn’t have to be this way I was like.

Oh my God, this really can change the world. So, um, the, the concept is like the idea is it’s a, it’s a workplace productivity model and it helps you recognize what you love to do and what you don’t love to do and. If there’s a way for you to do more of what you love and let someone else do what they love that you don’t love, then like that’s a win win and everyone can just kind of love what they do and lead to like better productivity and higher morale and less frustration.

That’s the, that’s the idea and like how it can impact teams at schools. Should I, should I go into detail of like what it is, what the, what the model is? Sure. Yeah. Okay. So, um, for those of you who are watching, you can see behind me, but if you’re just listening, I’ll describe it also. So there are six different, there are six different, um, ways in which people approach work or six different pieces to any project or strategy.

And this isn’t rocket science. Like we know different people like different themes. Um, but the, the beauty of working genius is that it, Gives everyone shared language to use that like removes things from being personal and keeps the work at the center. So I’m going to go through the six different top, the six different approaches right now.

And then we’ll talk about how it can apply to individuals. So it starts with wonder the whole thing spells out the word widget. If you’re, if you’re following along, so it starts with wonder the W is wonder. There are some people who just their God given talent is they just love to ask questions. Like what would it be like if What would it be like if we could like have some kind of like electronic forum where we could share ideas about mindfulness and school?

Like what could that be? What could that be? Right? They just love to wonder. And then there are people with I, invention. They love to come up with ideas. You give them an afternoon and they’re like, how about this? How about this? How about we come up with a podcast? That’s such a good idea. Maybe we can write a weekly article.

Maybe we can, I don’t know, hit the road. They just love to come up with ideas. They’re people with invention. And then there are people with D, discernment. They are the ones who love to refine ideas and say, Is that really the best idea? Like, Was that really the best way to end that movie? Or, Is that really the best approach?

I don’t think that we should hit the road and go everywhere. I think that we should really focus on this podcast. That’s a good idea. So, they’re really good at refining ideas. Then there are people with a G, galvanizing. They are not interested in the brainstorming. They’re really not interested in refining an idea, but they are your number one tier leaders.

Bring them an idea. And they’re like all over it. Um, I’m going to share this on LinkedIn. Like what can I do to help? Um, actually, and that the E is enablement and those are the helpers. What can I do to help? They’re quick to respond. They’re quick to help you find a solution for something. They’re your foot soldiers.

And then finally T is people who love to take things over the finish line. They. Will wake up on, on a Monday morning and just say like, what can I check on? I’m from last week and just make sure it’s finished. Cause that gives me joy and energy and the working genius model posits that all of us have two of these that were like wired with essentially is that we love to do it and two of them that are frustrations that like.

We can do them all. We’re all capable professionals. We’re really, like, good at what we do. But if we had to do these other two things, it would kind of drain us. Like, those are the meetings you don’t want to go to. Or those are the things you look at your to do list and you’re just like, I’m not going to do this today.

Like, have you ever looked at your to do list and just, like, skipped it? Like, I’ll look at my to do list and just not do the things that are there because I don’t want to do them. Those are, those are tenacity tasks for me. So, um, the working genius model, like for me, I, my working geniuses are G and E, galvanizing and enablement.

I’m a cheerleader and I want to help. And, and once I took that, like, once I recognized those are my, I’m like, Oh, right. Like, that’s why I wanted to be a teacher. That’s why I’m a nonprofit professional. Like, that’s why I want to help people. That’s how I’m wired. The beauty of it is this is the last I’m going to say then you can ask another question.

Um, the beauty of it is here’s the thing. Have you ever had a situation where you’ve kind of bumped into an invisible wall with somebody at work because they are so exasperated that you didn’t think through? What was so obvious to them. So like for me, I don’t have tenacity as my genius. And there’s somebody who I now realize I used to work with who for sure had discernment and tenacity as her working geniuses.

So I come in in the morning, like a puppy excited with 10, I, you know, ideas of like how we’re going to get our kids excited about things at school. And she’s quick to poke holes in my ideas and quick to say, you didn’t really think through all the details on that. And my like high puppy energy just deflates.

And makes me feel sad and makes me feel low energy and not valued. If we could have reframed that conversation by saying, I’m, I’m bringing my galvanizing energy. I’m super excited about this. I recognize that I don’t have tenacity. Hey, can you help me think through the details on this? It totally would have changed the experience for both of us.

It would have made me feel less bad about myself and it would have made her, it made me feel like less guilty and allow her to have less judgment around me as a professional. And I would bet that that shows up in many different ways at work. So that’s what I mean by it keeps work at the center and neutralizes the like personal issues, which can lead to toxicity, frustration.

I’m going to leave my job. Okay, that’s my soapbox. 

Tara: Yeah, so helpful. We love this stuff. We had one of our first episodes was with someone who does Enneagrams. And some of this reminds me of that, which my husband and I did Enneagrams to better understand, you know, our personality types. So I want to ask a couple things, but I want to start by just saying, um, how interesting it is when you think about your own.

personality and you understand how other people work, how, how it can help you communicate better, right? So there are lots of different tests that you can take. This is one, right? I’ve done the DISC, Myers Briggs, Enneagram, Strength Finder, there are a lot of these tests. So I’d love to hear you, and I’m sure you’re familiar with them, so I’d love to hear you talk about how the working genius is different, and then also how you do it.

Find out what your working genius strengths are. 

Miriam: Totally. Okay. Yes. Great questions. So, um, okay. The way in which this is a great question, and I know I had this question also, like, do we really need another tool to tell us? So one thing that is different, which I really like about the working genius is that it uses plain English and these are real words.

So, and, and, I think that makes it easier to apply in a real work setting immediately. So in like with the Enneagram, like I’m a two, but like, what does that mean? Nobody, if you don’t know what it is, you don’t know necessarily what that means, or like, I’m a purple or I’m an ENTJ, those are not, comfortable necessarily to use in a real world setting.

They, um, it’s, I don’t want to discount them because they’re really valuable assessments, but I think in terms of usability, I like that this uses plain English and you can easily say something like, I’m going to discern this idea for a minute. I’m going to lean into my discernment or we need to discern this.

Can we borrow somebody who has that as a genius? Instead of, right, like that’s one way in which I think it’s a little different. Another way that’s a little different is that this assessment is designed to be a workplace productivity tool to map out, I didn’t mention this, like once you know you’re working geniuses, you can map out what your whole team looks like and see who has what or, and then you also really identify where we’re butting heads and why.

So I think that those are our differences. Um, the other thing is like a disc assessment is super thorough and the report is like 75 pages long. This assessment is 15 minutes you take online and is like quick and easy and color coded. It just D. uncomplicates it. It’s not rocket science. It just really uncomplicates things for, for people.

So those are, I think, some differences that, that make this so easy to use, which I, which I like, um, how can people, Figure out. Sure. How can people figure out? So what you do? So first of all, there’s a book, which I don’t get any, any money if you buy this book, but I’m happy to promote it. Um, this is a fantastic book, the author.

So it’s all the, I should have mentioned this. The, the author is Patrick Lencioni, who is, um, Aubrey’s a fan. Aubrey, do you, do you use his stuff? Do you, do you like? I love 

Aubrey: Patrick stuff. My, I was going to, I should have pulled all my Patrick books off my bookshelf and just brought them here because I’m a big fan, but I have not read this one.

So yeah, 

Miriam: I’m, I’m on it. Book club. Um, yeah. So if you’ve read anything or if you haven’t, I’ll share with you, readable. They’re written like a fable, which are, um, it’s like a story about somebody at work and it’s a story about somebody who is like, Really smart and talented, but like frustrated at work.

Essentially because he’s being asked to do things that are not in his working genius areas. Um, and then they identify what they are. So I highly recommend reading this book. It’s like, I don’t know how fast you are as a reader, but like, you could probably read it in an hour. It’s very readable. And then at the end, it also talks about practical application, but the way to find out what your geniuses are, you go online to workinggenius.

com. First of all, you can always contact me. I’m happy to help because I love this system and I’m like happy to help anybody, but you go online to working genius. com. And then you take an assessment online. I think it costs 25. Um, you take the assessment, it takes about 15 minutes. And the key, this is the thing, the key is to answer the questions through the lens of what brings you joy and energy.

If you had a free day, what would you love to do? Um, and then you click submit and then it immediately gives you your results saying you’re working geniuses are. Galvanizing and enablement and your frustrations are this and this. And then there’s also a section in the middle called competencies, which means you’re pretty good at it.

People think of you when they think of that task, but like, you’re not good at it all the time. So if you had to do it all the time, it would lead to burnout. So that’s how people find out about it. 

Aubrey: Yeah. I love it. Thank you. When you were presenting, um, to the schools, what was really cool about this is even though they hadn’t taken the assessment, when you went through it, you could, I could see people like going.

Oh, yeah, that I hate that. And like, I’m thinking of my, like my team and I’m like, that’s why my assistant does that because she, I know where my genius is and I know it’s not in this area. And so she’s the one who helps me with X, Y, and Z. So I really loved how applicable it was. And just seeing the people in the audience being like, Oh my gosh, like mind blown.

I can see how this can really help us as a team in our schools. Um, I was. Just blow it away. Now, um, a lot of the people on our podcast are marketing and emissions professionals. You know, as we’re thinking about, like, how schools can use this model, especially in those areas, can you give us some examples how you’ve seen, like, schools actually implement this and see success?

Miriam: Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, number one for anyone, this is universal, but it definitely applies with marketing and admission as well. Think about it in terms of hiring. When you think about a job that you’re hiring for, if you can look at it through the lens of what is required of this person, is this person a brainstormer?

Like, do we need this person to come up with lots of new ideas? Should they have invention or is this person the person to make sure we implement? Should they have tons of tenacity to make sure we take it over the finish Um, just yesterday, so I did this Um, so that’s one way. And just yesterday, I, there’s a team who I did a summer retreat for.

We did this as part of their team building. And they, um, they needed to hire somebody new on their team a couple months ago. So the head called me and said, how can we use working genius? We crafted their interview questions with in mind what the job would actually require. Instead of just saying like, tell me about a challenge and how you overcame it.

We, we try to identify what does this job really require? And what can we ask? To help us identify that, um, they ended up hiring somebody. And just yesterday I met with her and her supervisor to say, Hey, here’s all this working genius stuff. Here are the whole, here’s the obstacles you’re going to face.

You’re a great professional. You already have the job, but I’m telling you right now, you’re going to have trouble meeting deadlines and your supervisor has tenacity. She doesn’t be prepared for that. So that’s like a perfect example of how it can, it can be helpful. I think also with marketing and admission, think about the stages of anything that you do.

And like, Where does the creative element come in and where does the detail oriented element come in? Um, You know think about like where’s that eye invention or that wonder are you building in? Um an opportunity to say Like are we even marketing to the right people? What other zip codes could we hit if we were given, you know?

Like make sure you build in time to do all the stages of You Because if you’re not building in time for wonder, then you’re missing asking those important questions. Um, another way in which I saw this really powerfully is with another group where, um, it was discovered that the, the, this, um, this wasn’t a school, but I think it still could apply for a school.

Imagine if you’re head of school, it was discovered. Like, we expect the head of school to be the visionary. And so you might think that they’re the W and I, like, they’re just a wonder they invent, like they’re up there in the clouds. We did this assessment with a team and it was discovered that the CEO was DG, discernment and galvanizing.

He was like quick to think things through. He was a cheerleader. He was charismatic. And when we did this, he literally was almost in tears with relief saying, I have felt like an imposter my whole career that I’m supposed to be a visionary. And I don’t feel like one. And I now see there are other people in my team who are, who are creative and come up with ideas.

And I now feel so comfortable saying, Hey, can, can you help me brainstorm on this? And it doesn’t like I don’t have to be the Wizard of Oz in front of the curtain to pretend to be this person. I can be confident and a human man and say, I’m not perfect. I want to, I want to like incorporate your talents into the vision for our company.

And that was really, really powerful to be able to see that. 

Tara: Yeah. And to, to know the different strengths that your team has and actually to build a team that has those different strengths, really, I mean, so that you’re filling in those gaps and you don’t have everybody who’s a visionary and nobody who’s going to act on it.

Right. Yeah. Oh, 

Miriam: no wonder we never get things done. Oh, 

Tara: right. Here’s 

Miriam: actually, here’s another really important one is think about meetings that you have and who should run your meetings. This is huge. Um, we. I just did this with another team there. Um, it was discovered the person who was running the weekly meeting.

I saw this, she was super shy and like, turns out she doesn’t have an ounce of galvanizing. Galvanizing is a frustration for her. And she’s supposed to rally the team every week around their work. We come this way. I could comfortably say it’s not about you. It’s about how you operate and how you approach things.

She was a WD. She’s a wonder discerner. So she’s constantly thinking of other things and refining them in her head. She’s not the right person to run your weekly staff meeting to get people excited about tasks. You can look at the different meetings on your calendar and assign different people to lead them based on what gives them joy and energy and will then infect the entire team with joy and energy.

So the team lead doesn’t have to be the person to run every meeting. It could and also then it neutralizes this notion of like the pecking order or people are being favored or like an inappropriate promotion. It’s not about that. It’s about everyone’s on a level playing field, but some people are galvanizers, and they should therefore run a meeting to excite people or people with tenacity should be the people who are running a tactical meeting.

People with wonder are people who should be running your off site. Or, you know, if you do a summer retreat. So, um, thinking about working genius and meetings is hugely powerful. I have like a really good handout on that. If anyone’s interested in learning more, please contact me. Happy to share. 

Tara: I love it.

Gosh, this is great. I know we could probably go on and on for a long time and I’m, I’m going to go and do this test because I think it’s really can be super helpful. Yeah. 

Miriam: I’m happy to talk through with you what your results are and like how you. See them if you would like. 

Tara: Thank you. Thank you. It might not be a surprise, right?

At this point in, in, in my life, but you never know, um, I’m going to talk about mindfulness because I think that is very relevant to this whole thing. And that’s what we talk about on our podcast as well. So we always ask our guests how they define mindfulness and how it applies to the work that you do or the work that you do with schools.

Um, so maybe, can you talk about that a little bit? 

Miriam: 100 percent and I love that you bring that in because I think we are so focused on being busy and productive and impressive all the time for me mindfulness is giving yourself permission to just be and and embrace serenity and to have quiet. And, um, I think that being self aware around what you do well and what you don’t have to try to be excellent in can be so uplifting and like can, can like blow up your balloon in a good way and just say like, yes, I’m gonna, I’m gonna really do what I do well and not spin my wheels.

What did I, I said this the other day, I was like, that’s a good metaphor. Running on a hamster wheel that needs to be oiled is so exhausting. And if I just like, if I knew where I could do really well, just like allow yourself to be there. So, um, I guess that’s maybe a combination of two answers. The first I would say, anyone listening to this, make sure you give yourself time to breathe.

The world is not going to fall apart if you don’t answer that email, I promise. It will be okay. Give yourself time to breathe. 

Tara: Thank you. Good, good reminder. 

Aubrey: Yeah, I love that. That is so important. Um, and especially for our school leaders, they really need to hear that. Um, so, uh, I’m really excited because you’re one of the most enthusiastic people I know.

Like when we get together, I feel like it’s like, Oh my gosh, let’s hang out and have fun. Um, so I’m excited to hear your answers on, um, we’re transitioning to our rapid fire questions. Great. Um, so are you ready Miriam? For the rapid fire questions. I think, I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I know it sounds intimidating.

It’s going to be fine. Uh, so I’ll kick us off with the first one. If you could put one book as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, what would it be? 

Miriam: You know, I thought about this a lot and I think I’m going to stick with a very traditional answer, which is Lord of the Flies. It’s a classic, but I think it is, maybe it goes to actually in the same vein of what we’re talking about here, which is like things that are not rocket science that still need to be said.

Aubrey: Yeah, you 

Miriam: leave a bunch of of kids in a place without any rules or any guidance. It things are just going to devolve. 

Tara: Yeah, it is good. And it’s always relevant too, right? Yeah. Um, thank you. Next question. What is one app you could not live without? 

Miriam: Um, I couldn’t live without uh, google maps. I have a terrible sense of direction.

I get lost all the time. Even with Google maps. And it’s like, but I see it as an opportunity. My kids know like, Oh, we’re going on an adventure with mom. But thank God for Google. I do think they’re really like changing the world. Like, yes, thank you for people. And we’ve 

Aubrey: used that when I’ve been walking to, and I’m like, I still can’t get it right.

I’m like, how did I mess up walking with Google Maps? 

Tara: The walking is hard. Yeah. The walking is hard to follow. Like walk 50 

Aubrey: feet in one direction and then you’re doing it, but I couldn’t have done it without Google Maps. Like eventually that’s hilarious. Good app. Um, 

Miriam: okay. What are you reading right now? So I’m in between books right now, but I just purchased the 15, um, commitments of conscious leadership.

Yes. Um, Aubrey and I are both going to read it. Tara, if you want to read it, she’s got it too. I’m super excited to start it. So I’m always reading a, um, a workbook and a fiction book at the same time. So, um, so I’m about, I’m about to start that, which I’m really excited about. And I just finished last night, um, Um, the book Commonwealth by Anne Patchett.

I’m a big Anne Patchett fan. I know that some people either love her. I’m in that camp or cannot stand her. My mother’s in that camp. She’s like, really? So predictable. I cannot stand reading her. And I’m like, Hey, I will not recommend them anymore. 

Tara: Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. Our last question is what is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us with?

In addition to all the other stuff you’ve shared already. 

Miriam: Yeah, um, really good piece of advice is just get started. Don’t wait for perfect. Like just do. And that’s what I try to do for myself also. So I’m sure that reflects your, yeah, 

Tara: I’m sure that reflects your working genius style, that answer actually.

I know. 

Miriam: What’s the word? This is the thing you always are. People are worried about like, what if, what if I don’t do well, here’s the thing. What if you do? 

Tara: Yeah. 

Aubrey: It’ll be okay. Really good piece of advice. Really. Miriam, this has been so much fun having you on here. I mean, we always say it’s like chatting with friends, um, on the podcast and it certainly felt like that again today.

So thanks for sharing your wisdom, telling people more about the working genius model. And, um, I would love to know where, I mean, if they want to learn more about you, about the model or any have questions about the podcast, where can they find you? 

Miriam: Sure, absolutely. So I, um, my website is saddle rock strategies.

com. Um, that’s like, that’s where you can find me and stuff about me. I’m also, I’m pretty active on LinkedIn and my name is Miriam Stein. Um, and you can find me out there. I post a lot. I love to engage with people. I love meeting people. Here’s a little known fact about me. Actually. I love the middle seat on the airplane.

Because if I’m sitting next to somebody and they’re boring, I have somebody else. So I love meeting. If you’re interested in chatting, I love meeting new people. It’s also a bit of a superpower because people get so stressed. Oh my God. What if I get the middle seat? So what? That’s great. Um, so you can, you can find me on LinkedIn or Satterrock strategies or Instagram at Satterrock strategies.

Um, and on my website also, there’s more information about working genius and other stuff I do. I also. For marketing and enrollment professionals who are listening to this, I have, um, a quick tips newsletter that I send out every two weeks. It’s called Beyond the Tour. And it is, it, as much as I talk, the, the newsletter is much less.

It’s crisp, concrete tips to help you get better at what you do. Every, every edition has, here’s one thing you could do this week. Three tips to go deeper. Here are events you should know about. And here’s an article or a podcast that might help you look at work differently. Um, I get good feedback on it. I think it’s really helpful and it will not take a lot of time.

Aubrey: I will say, I get her newsletter and it is absolutely all that. Yeah. And the second thing I must say is you need to create, um, some sort of quiz about the airplane seats. Like, what does it mean if you take the middle seat? Like, I’m like, first of all, you get lower airfare prices. I’m sure when you’re selecting your seat and second, what does it mean that I want the aisle seat all the time?

Yeah. That’s your secondary. I’m 

Tara: afraid I’m going to have to go to the bathroom and I don’t want to climb over everybody. I don’t want to 

Aubrey: be able to bolt. If I want to be able to bolt, like, yeah. I don’t want to ask all 

Tara: over people personality 

Aubrey: type. 

Miriam: Yeah, I’m a galvanizer enabler. That’s it. Like I’m just excited about people.

So where are we going? That’s awesome. I love that 

Tara: fly. Sometimes the airplane, the airplane seat test. There we go. All right. Miriam. 

Miriam: Thank you for having me. It’s been a blast. Thanks. 

Tara: Bye.