98. Uplifting Diversity in Independent School Leadership with Bob Thomas

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Tara: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Tara Clase. 

Aubrey: And I’m Aubrey Bursch. Today we’re joined by Bob Thomas. Bob has gained a reputation for his down to earth, authentic and inspiring approach, a strategic relationship builder. Classroom teacher, athletic coach, entrepreneur, and school leader. As an avid sports person, Bob has coached high school and college varsity teams.

When he was hired to coach and start the first men’s golf program at Rosemont College, he became only the second African American in the NCAA history to coach a golf program that was not at historically black college or university. Bob is the head of school at the Walden School of Media, Pennsylvania, just outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Welcome, Bob. We’re really excited you’re here today. 

Bob: Well, thank you for having me today. I’m really excited to speak to you and, , tell you my story in a lot of ways. So, , thank you again for having me. 

Tara: Yeah, thank you. We are, we’re excited and honored, really, to have you here to talk to us about your story and about independent school leadership and and your, your history in that realm.

We are going to be talking about diversity in this episode, and I think that’s a really important topic that, as we talked about in preparation for this episode, is talked about a lot without seeing maybe as much change as, you know, We would hope to see over all these years, but in preparation for this, you shared, we’re so grateful that you shared a letter with us that you wrote in 2016.

It was a tribute to your father and the power of words. We were so inspired by that story. Uh, and, and really wanted to have you share that and talk about the challenges that your dad faced as an African American man, you know, years ago, uh, and how he went on to achieve remarkable success. Would you summarize the story for us?

Bob: Sure. Sure. My dad uh, passed away in 2014. And I remember as a young child, he told me this story, uh, about his, his teenage years. Uh, he grew up in, uh, Lansing, New Jersey. And, uh, at age 17, he had gotten the job as in a bathhouse. Uh, and at the time the Lansing beaches were segregated and he was working in the bathhouse and the only part of the beach.

And that meant that he was cleaning out the of the bathing suits of the white patrons who would go, uh, come in there. So one day he’s there and he’s sitting on the bench in the, in the bathhouse and he’s reading a, uh, uh, has a copy of Walt Whitman’s Leaves of Grass. Uh, and he’s reading it and, uh, a white patron, a woman, a female comes in and she, uh, looks down at him and basically says, uh, that’s an interesting book that you’re reading.

Do you understand what you’re reading? And he said, yes, absolutely. I understand what I’m reading. And you know, he, I remember him telling me that he was a little, you know, Look at what how she kind of asked the question because of the time period and being in the white only area. So the woman goes and showers leaves her bathing suit.

My dad washes it out, folds it up and everything else. And he sits back down and continues reading Leaves of Grass. And the, uh, uh, the white female comes out and she sees him reading it again. And she says, you know, kind of looks at him a little bit, grabs her bathing suit and starts to walk out and then turns into him and says, do you really understand what you’re reading?

And he says, yes, absolutely. And long story short, these six words changed my dad’s life. She says, then what are you doing here? And she said it in a way that was not. You know, and antagonistic or the meaning. And my dad said those six words basically changed the trajectory of his life. You know, what am I doing here?

And from there, he just You know, shot forward. He ended up enlisting in the army and the World War Two. He was part of the 92nd Infantry Division under General Patton, the only the colored division to see action in World War Two. We fought in the Italian campaign. And from there, you know, he graduated from the University of Pennsylvania on the GI Bill, uh, and then just had all these different types of, uh, jobs and careers where it was, important for him to really have the strength of character, the strength and confidence that he needed to move through because he was either the first, the only or one of a few african americans in a lot of these positions.

He ended up being the corporate vice president of a New York Stock Exchange company, the first African American to do that in that business of food business. And from there, I mean, he just taught me a lot of different things and it was able to give me that kind of confidence, knowing that I was going into an arena in the independent school arena at the time where there were very few.

African American people of color, especially men and in that area. So, uh, what I learned from him and using those words that that really springboarded him into a into a really powerful position and a powerful career and a great career. I really needed to. Really write that story. So people understood exactly where I was coming from.

Aubrey: I so appreciate you sharing that story with us. It was an amazing story. And I mean, to hear all the things your dad has done and overcome, and it sounds like passed on to you. Especially when he shares, uh, in talks about that story and says, you know, that question that was asked of him, like, what are you doing here?

As you’re reflecting on your own leadership journey, I’ll have moments like these, or perhaps your, your father’s kind of experience as well as what he kind of left to you, the lessons learned. How has that shaped your perspective on the role of African American leaders in independent schools and how do you think schools can better support diverse leaders in their mission?

Bob: Yeah, it was very helpful in watching my dad go through his career and tell me that story and the things he had to face. which were a lot worse than what I’ve faced in my career, although I’ve faced a lot of the adversity and racism. What he went through was even more intense, but it did help me a lot because I remember my first, uh, teaching experience was at a, uh, arts and sciences school in Philadelphia.

And when you talk about the, the impact it had, or the impact you have as a person of color in schools. I’ll never forget walking into that Barstow Assistant School, which is in North Philadelphia, uh, walking into the cafeteria as a new teacher. And it was a, you know, mostly black school. Literally, I’ll never forget this, walking in down the steps and presenting myself to the, to the, everyone that was downstairs, all the kids were downstairs.

Everyone just turned and looked at me as, Oh my gosh, is this, is this guy actually a teacher here? Is he, is he a janitor, whatever, whatever it was, it just, that impact, that simple process of just being there, in that space. I could see changed a lot of how people were thinking how the kids were thinking, and it was one of the most amazing experiences I ever had in teaching and having my father, giving me that that confidence, helping get through that, because that kind of to me that kind of pressure in a lot of ways that you are really a role model for every single kid in this building was a lot.

Yeah. And it, it take a lot to really understand that moving through my career, uh, in the, in the in the independent school arena. So it’s, it’s important that, that schools look at this. And as we said, I mean, before we came on, when I look at the number of the percentage of folks of color, African Americans in leadership positions, administrative positions from back in 2018 and now in 2024 or whatever, hasn’t really changed a lot, although there’ve been a lot of hires and heads of school.

We still have a lot of work to do. One of the things that I thought was, was difficult for me through my career was that Me being one of the first in a lot of these arenas and a lot of these schools, because there weren’t a lot of people before me in these positions. I didn’t have that mentorship or that peer group to talk to when things got difficult, where now you do have Uh, you know, heads of color group or missions groups, all these different groups where you can go and talk, which was which is very important to have this mentoring and peer opportunities for folks who are getting into the arena that I didn’t have.

So a lot of that some of the difficulties that I faced, I had to face alone or talk to other people who were not in the industry and try to figure out how to move through it. So the more schools can do to, to, to foment. Uh, peer groups and mentoring and, and, and always all folks of color, regardless of what background to get together and talk about these issues because they’re still prevalent today.

Even though it’s 2024 there’s still a lot of things we have to do, have to do better. The climate right now is very scary in terms of what we’re going to see moving forward from a diversity from schools, from books, all these different things that are going on. So, you know, hopefully the, the clock isn’t going backwards, but it feels somewhat like it is in some cases.

So, uh, the more schools, especially independent schools. That they can do to talk about, you know, peaceful living inclusion uh, all these things that are important to the environment of school, I think, is really important for schools to really take, take a leadership role in 

Tara: absolutely. I mean, I think that the role that you played and forging the path.

by yourself was something that your dad did as well, right? So I think yeah, he was a role model for you, even though it wasn’t in schools, you know, just in terms of standing out and, and not having, not having some peers in the same, Vote as you as lonely. It’s a lonely place to be. So, you know, you got that from your dad.

Bob: Yeah, I did. I did. I think, you know, we had spoken about earlier about the idea of servant leadership. I think that that’s, that’s what he really did, even though as I said, Robert Greenleaf didn’t write about some relationships in the 1970s. My dad was doing a lot before that. That’s how he kind of moved through his life in terms of building others up.

He had that confidence when he always was a good listener. He really did a lot of conceptualization. He looked into the future and said, Okay, what can I do to get here? And how, what path can I take in order to get there? And all those things about Being aware of his surroundings, being aware of himself, having a self aware, there’s a self confidence, uh, all these things that servant leaders do, I think is really important.

And, uh, again, I didn’t read Greenleaf’s book until 1995 and You know, when I read it, I was like, wow, there’s a lot of things my dad did. He taught me that I’m doing that really fit into the servant leadership role. And, you know, uh, after, after reading it, I’m like, wow, there’s, there’s a lot more that I could do to help move forward the, the, the, the idea of diversity and inclusion in a lot of the schools that I ended up going to.

And again, I was either like my dad, the first African American in the school’s history or the first administrator of color in the school’s history. So moving through that and trying to uh, manage that situation was always challenging, but if you have that confidence, you have that awareness, you have that, that sense of, of servant leader, where you’re looking to help others.

And what I mean in helping others, you’re helping yourself, uh, that that was very meaningful in terms of how I felt that it impacted my life and how I impacted others. 

Tara: Yeah. Do you think that this, that servant leadership is driving any changes in terms of bringing diversity into school, independent school leadership?

Do you think servant leadership plays a role there? 

Bob: It does. I mean, I think servant leadership informs equity, diversity, diversity and inclusion in a lot of ways and how it the, the, the, the characteristics of a servant leader. And basically, you need to be able to, as a servant leader, create the environment that encourages awareness for others.

And, and being able to. At the same time, reflect on your own behaviors, uh, as you move through and and the biases that you might have or the other things that that need to be addressed as well. Uh, I think one of the biggest things in that is listening. I think that’s a that’s a something that’s lost right now in a lot of in a lot of our landscape, being able to just listen and be able to receive someone’s words and feelings.

Uh, in a way that is that you’re not already developing a response in your head, but you’re trying to just focus on that person in that moment and meet them where they are and rather than trying to always think about how you can help solve the problem. Just the person probably just needs to be listened to in a lot of ways.

I think that is. It’s important to do as well, especially when you talk about being in a position of leadership as a person of color, being in a classroom or an administrative position, being able to listen to your colleagues, being listened to the students and their uh, stories that they, that they are uh, moving through in their lives.

So, the servant leader really. Encourage that kind of diversity of thought and inclusion. But you really do have to make sure that you are in a position where you are self confident, self aware, and able to listen at a level that is inclusive. Uh, that the person feels accepted and valued in that particular moment.

Aubrey: Thank you, Bob, for sharing about that. I think that’s something that we can all learn from. And, you know, I know certainly on my book read list is to learn more about servant leadership because it can have a tremendous impact on people. And it sounds like your father and you have had, have been able to share those skill sets with others and have gotten so much out of them both personally and professionally.

I’m wondering, Bob, you know, before we recorded, we talked a little bit about the storytelling and your story right now that we’re sharing right now. Reminds us how of how stories and history can shape our emotional connection to the present. So, I’m curious, like, how can schools incorporate the rich and diverse.

Personal histories of their leaders, perhaps their students, their faculty you know, people at the schools to foster more an inclusive and understanding school culture. 

Bob: Yeah, I, to me, I think we spoke about earlier about the listening to the stories and people’s And how people have moved through their lives is really important and we’ve been always talk about the, the, the, you know, the aspects of what diversity means and, and I think the, the definitions of diversity inclusion and things along those lines.

But when I hear person stories when I hear someone who talks about in a faculty meeting microaggressions, and how it has affected them, and and what it’s meant to them. You know, things. I was, I was at a school where, uh, we had two, two administrators of, of, well, a teacher of color and, and the, and the, and the, uh, uh, one who was, uh, a person was working in the front office.

These two women. And after a year and a half, faculty members still were called in by the wrong name, and they just didn’t, they didn’t realize it. And that’s microaggression or talking about the person’s wife’s an interesting hairdo or something like, and just all these little things that happen, but in the past maybe people didn’t present those or want to tell the story or whatever.

Now I think it’s time where you need to be able to hear that. You have to hear that. Uh, always different things. I mean, it happened to me, you know, when I was at a certain school, they call me by the other black male’s name rather than after being there a year or two years. And you wonder, what are you doing?

Where, where are you? Where’s your thought process? Do you understand what’s going on? And These, these little microaggressions, whether they’re, you know, targeted to a person of color or targeted to a gender or uh, whatever the case might be, you gotta think about it, you gotta pause. And understand and you gotta listen to what’s going on.

And when people hear these stories, I think it’s more impactful than just defining what diversity is or inclusion is. Listen to the stories, listen to how people feel, listen to how they move through their life and the things that they have to have to deal with on a daily basis or monthly basis or whatever the case might be.

So. When I look at and want to be involved in in diversity training or diversity discussions at the IB discussions. I want to hear these stories, people need to hear the stories of what has impacted that individual on an almost granular level. And then move through them from there, that awareness, again, awareness of yourself and awareness of the other person.

And again, that’s, that’s one of the characteristics of serving leadership, being aware. So the more stories we can hear the more stories we can share, I think will have more of an impact. And again, it’s taking these actions and being able to be comfortable with these actions and. Uh, we need to do a better job of doing that and understanding where people are coming from.

I think this generation is, is, is needs to, to really put that at the forefront, uh, because it’s going to be challenged over the next, I don’t know, whatever years or whatever, it’s going to be challenged in a huge way. So, I think independent schools, because they are independent, are going to have a huge, Task and responsibility.

Uh, with the students that that that that coming into our schools in order to, uh, help them manage this situation because in the public sector, it’s going to be hard for those teachers and those students that to get that that kind of, of awareness. If things work out the way they’re going to work, I never nobody knows what’s going to happen but independent schools are going to be on the front lines.

Thank you. And I, that’s what I think. So the more we can listen, the more we can tell the stories and more we can, uh, talk about the training and, and understanding what is happening out there and what’s, what our children are going to be facing, uh, and what our adults are going to be facing, uh, we have a task and a responsibility as an independent, independent school arena.

Tara: Yeah, I totally agree. I think, uh, you know, the, the, I’ve been studying biases and, and implicit. Biases versus explicit biases and how those, you know, lead to microaggressions and, and those types of things. And so it is sharing those stories, I think, does help us realize where, where some of this comes from in terms of the biases that we have and, and addressing them and recognizing them.

So I, I think that’s a really important part of the picture. As well, and makes it harder to, to overcome because biases are, you know, they’re, they’re deep down inside of us but for schools who are striving to improve diversity, you know, as you mentioned at the beginning, it’s been very slow process and we talk about it a lot.

And I think. Unfortunately, it’s probably going to be talked about less in, in the near future. But how, how do we move beyond the good intentions to real systemic change? That’s a huge question. I know that’s, we can’t necessarily address this on a podcast, but you know, it is really easy to just talk about this stuff and, and say the same things over and over again, as, as you mentioned to Aubrey and I, before we record it, you know, talking, you know, about Talking is easy.

Walking the talk is not so easy. I don’t know. It’s 

Bob: not. And it’s not. And it is frustrating. You know, you know, I’m no spring chicken, but around the block a few times. But when you when you look at when I when I started and where we are now, I have things improved. Yeah, they have. It definitely have improved.

But there’s still those areas that I think about, I’m like, wow, we, we really haven’t gotten better or we really haven’t improved in, in, in a lot of areas. And there is a lot of talk and there’s, there’s no, it has to be intentional. You have to be able to have those hard talks and be uncomfortable. I mean, this is nothing new.

I mean, we’ve heard this all the time. You have to have those uncomfortable talks. You have to be in a space where you are aware of, you know what, yeah, that was a messed up thing that I said. I really didn’t. think about what I was saying. Uh, I’m glad you brought that to my attention. I’ve had a, you know, a couple of instances here at school where other teachers heard something from another teacher and that teacher went up to the teacher in a professional and, and, and in a very, uh, uh, nice way said, can you tell me why, why you said that and what, you know, and that, and that really is a lot more impactful.

Then letting it go and not, you know, doing anything about it. I forget the gentleman, I, I, I, I, who, where I heard this from, he said, if you make an observation, then you have an obligation to do something. 

Tara: Yeah. Yeah. 

Bob: And I, and I, I can’t remember, was a, an African American writer, I think he was at the or, uh, uh, state association’s, uh.

Uh, dinner somewhere again. I wish I could remember his name. I’m sorry, but that really kind of having if he’s making an observation you have an obligation. Do you see something, you got to say something. Yeah, otherwise just going to keep going and I know this is all stuff is this stuff that has been hashed around for years I’m not saying anything new, but, you know.

You have to be intentional and be okay stepping outside your comfort zone in order to be able to move forward with a lot of different things. And it is uncomfortable when, when, when it’s brought to face to face with you. I mean, there’s things that, you know, that I’ve caught myself saying that like, Oh, geez, I can’t believe I just said that because it’s an old adage or old phrase.

And I’m like, that’s not right, Bob, you know, okay. And think about 

Tara: that, you 

Bob: know. 

Tara: I think a, a responding to those things without being defensive, responding to them humbly and not saying like, you’re telling me I’m a terrible person. You’re pointing out a mistake I made. 

Aubrey: Right. You 

Tara: know, and, and addressing it without being def defensive is 

Aubrey: mm-hmm

Hard 

Tara: for a lot of people to do. But I think, I believe that that’s a way to make great progress is for people to, to not, to not be defensive when they make a mistake and. Just yeah, it’s not about it’s 

Bob: not about shaming people, 

Tara: right? Exactly. 

Bob: It’s about educating you when it gets you to understand what’s going on.

I don’t want to shame you. We all know the history. We all know this. We all know that it’s there. I mean, it’s out there. But it’s people’s responsibility to to educate themselves, not just within their own environment, but outside. Read a book, you know, do a webcast, read something on online. Do your homework and and really understand what’s going on out there.

And and it’s really, it takes personal fortitude to to really want to understand what’s going on, you have a responsibility when you step into that, into that, that classroom with those with those students. So I step into the into the building as an administrator. I have a responsibility to take care of everyone in that building in the best way I can.

I always say we have 130 kids in our school, I mean, we have 130 different personalities and 130 different ways of learning and it’s incumbent upon us as an institution to meet those kids where they’re where they are and to understand their story and understand their parent story and figure out what is the best possible means of creating an environment for them to be safe.

Welcome and then successful. I need so I need I need kids kids and people who are emotionally and mentally safe in their environment before we can start with the academics and all that all that stuff. They’re not don’t feel safe and they don’t feel I, we have to know that what what is it. Is this something that’s happening in the classroom, is something happening in the school, whatever the case might be, you know, and when you’re in leadership positions like, like, like me and the head of school or other, you’re going to get rigged across the coals at some point, people are going to bring it up to you.

Whether they’re folks of color or white folk, they’re going to bring it up and you have to be okay and say, you know what, uh, here’s what we’re actually doing about that. But, you know, you know what, you’re right, you know, we are doing a good job with that. And I have to be able to understand that, get to the leadership team and say, you know, we have to talk about this.

This is a situation that has been brought up by several people. Uh, we’re not doing a good job, but let’s, let’s see what we can do in order to help this along and that transparency. And not being afraid to ask those questions to talk to your constituency, the survey of constituency and be okay with the negative feedback and the positive feedback.

That is key. It’s not personal all the time. It’s institutional. We’ve been changing the institutional, uh, in a lot of different ways. So, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot, it’s, it’s, it’s ongoing and you know, we, we, we do our best to really work hard to, uh, make our institutions or independent school institutions the best possible, safe, welcoming place that we can.

And I always said to when I was in the admissions and enrollment management field, I always say, you know, in the Philadelphia area, we have a plethora of independent schools by more than any area in the nation. Actually, I said, when you go to these schools, you’re probably you’re probably not going to get a bad experience academically.

It just doesn’t happen. I don’t think so. Where you can go wrong is the community. Where is the community? Ask the hard questions when you’re in front of that admissions person. Where are you on a diversity scale? What do you do on this? What are you doing in this situation? Do you, does everyone feel welcome?

Don’t be afraid to ask those questions because you’ll know as soon as you hit the door if that school is, is, is the right place for you. But don’t, you know, every school has a, has a different feel, a different personality. They’re on a Uh, scale in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging.

They’re all different. So ask where they are. Don’t be afraid to put them if they start swarming and they’re sieging like, you got an idea of, you know, where they might be. It’s uncomfortable for them. So you have to kind of take that into consideration when you think about, do you want your greatest gift?

Your children to be in that environment, and that’s that’s really important. 

Aubrey: That’s amazing, Bob. I’m so glad you mentioned that there’s so many times and I think that question is coming up more and more in admissions. I work with a lot of small schools and when we’re talking about like, Oh, what sort of questions are parents asking?

That’s one of them. And I think the transparency what you said about transparency is so key. Like if we’re not transparent about where we are as school leaders, and we’re, you know, very honest with our answers, believe that, believe me, online is a whole plethora of parents who will, who will come out of the woodwork on review sites or other places, and they’re going to share their experience.

And if it’s not in alignment with what you’re doing as a school parents will take note, prospective parents will, will take note. So I really appreciate you bringing up in the survey piece about listening to your community and being able to sit with the, not to jump to conclusions, not to take anything personally, but be able to sit with the results of your survey or what people have brought forward and, and kind of, you know, Understand it and as a group, like really discuss the challenging things that are going on and what you’ve heard in a mindful manner, I think is is something that all schools need to work towards if they’re not already doing already, because that’s how you create that space that you were talking about for the students, which is what I hope all our schools are striving to do.

So yeah, and 

Bob: then you mentioned the mindful piece, which is really important to be to be mindful of it to sit back and think and take that pause. And, and, you know, When mindfulness wasn’t a, wasn’t a big term when, you know, when my, my, me growing up and I, but I remember when I, when I play sports, you know, I was, I was my, I use mindfulness in terms of when I played baseball or, you know, I was, I’m out playing golf.

I think about what’s going on. I’m mindful I get in the zone or whatever they should call it getting in the zone back then. But you have to be mindful of what’s what’s going on, think about it. My dad says there’s an issue going on. The first place you look is in the mirror. That’s the first place you look.

What, what part did you play in this situation? And then talk about your behaviors and things like it. Could you have done a better job? You know, maybe, maybe it’s 80, 80, 20 them, 80, 20 you. But, but, but understand that. If you’re in this situation, you had a part to play in it somehow, and how, when I look at that and I do that, you know, sometimes it comes out like, you know what, I didn’t play a major part, you know, it happened over there more over here, but how can I manage that, how can I change that situation if it’s, if it’s The other person sometimes you can sometimes you can I’ve been in a situation where, you know, had to leave was or, you know, whatever, and it just didn’t work, but I always think about what handed I have in this situation could have done something better.

Or did I do the best job I can it just didn’t work out. And can I speak to this person or this group and see if we can change the path that we’re on the environment that we’re in, but it’s it’s understanding to be able to sit back and think and have that ability to be in a mindset that is okay, let me really think about what happened.

And even if you have to write it down or, or whatever, or speak it in whatever the case might be. I think that’s important thing to do. I think that the knee jerking this or, you know, if you’re in a conversation, you’re not listening. And you’re not being mindful of that person. Okay, if you’re listening and you’re already made a decision on what you want to say back before you listen to what’s going on.

It’s not gonna, it’s not going to work so that that’s a hard thing I’m still still working on that area I My wife is a family therapist. So you can imagine the questions I get all the time every day. What do you think about that? Well, how about this? So I, I, I have learned a lot from my wife because I sit outside.

Sometimes I sit outside her door and I listen to the questions she asks her clients. And I’m like, wow, that’s an, that’s an interesting question. And I’ve used it sometimes and it does change the dynamic. Of that environment that you’re talking to that individual and like, thanks, honey, I really appreciate, you know, listening to you and you giving me this it’s taken a long time but but you know it’s interesting that that I’ve had that opportunity with my dad and my wife, they have all this kind of stuff come to me and understanding how to kind of.

You know, question yourself and, and, and listen and because what she does in terms of how she listens is incredible. I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t do it with the couples. I’ll be telling them, you talk to them, take care of your wife, whatever. But I, she does it. She just very calm. And, you know, so I’ve learned a lot of, of, uh, of ways to inquire.

in order to get either either kids or adults to open up and really be comfortable around me. And again, that’s awareness. That you have in that situation. So you’re building that trust that people will then, uh, be open and transparent with you as well. 

Aubrey: Bob, that was incredible as the mindful school marketing podcast.

I feel like you really hit the nail on mindful right there, like with the questions we ask of ourselves. And of others. I think that was just very powerful. Thank you, Bob. Now I’m going to shift us to another part, which is one of my favorite parts of the segment where we ask you rapid fire questions.

Are you ready, Bob, for the rapid fire? 

Bob: I think so. 

Aubrey: All right, here, I’m going to kick us off with question number one. If, if you could put one book as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, what would it be? 

Bob: Oh, my goodness. Yes. I believe

I don’t know why I like this book, but I love it. A separate piece. I love that book. I love the, the, uh, the symbolism in it. Uh, I used to teach it in my eighth grade English literature classes. And I’ve always enjoyed that book, a separate piece, and I know some schools do it, some schools are doing more contemporary things, but I think that was one of my favorite books.

I would have that in my curriculum. 

Tara: Great, great book. Thank you. Next question. What app could you not live without? 

Bob: Grammarly. 

Tara: Hmm. 

Bob: I use that all the time. I’ve been using it for, for, for years. And, uh, it’s, it really has helped my, my, my writing and my tense and all these different things. Sometimes I agree with it.

Sometimes I don’t, but, uh, I use it for, for pretty much everything. Uh, that’s a really good app. 

Aubrey: It’s my son’s favorite app as well, so. 

Bob: He’s like, look what Grammarly 

Aubrey: is saying. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Uh, what are you reading right now? 

Bob: I’m actually reading, I have it right here. My, my CFO gave me, it’s called, uh, The Teammates.

And it’s a portrait of a friendship and, uh, he and I, I’m a big baseball fan and this is a book about the Boston Red Sox and, uh, for four teammates. I remember Ted Williams. Let me see who else is in there. Uh, picky. John, Johnny Pesky, Ted Williams, Dom DiMaggio, and Bobby Doerr. And it’s not only about their relationship during their time with the Red Sox, but after they retired and their friendship that they formed after they retired.

I’m only, I just started the other day and I’m already loving it. Uh, cause I’m a big red, I’m a Phillies fan first, but I’m a big Red Sox fan as well. So I’m looking forward to reading this book, but it’s, it’s, you know, a portrait of a forensic, but what they did outside of baseball, I’m really interested to see how that pans out.

Tara: Thank you so much. Our last question is what is one great piece of advice you’ve given us so much, but what is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us with? 

Bob: Oh,

I, I, I think maybe just. Be aware, be aware of yourself be aware of your environment and others, and, you know, be, be their servant leader, really, be their servant leader, serve others and it will definitely help you with your confidence in how you, move through your life. It has helped me. It really does.

I mean, uh, take the opportunity to read Robert Greenleaf’s, you know, The Servant as Leader. And, uh, I think it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a great read. And there’s also one called the institution is leader too. So, yeah, just, just be aware. I think it’s going to be very, very important moving through the next, uh, next years,

this has been fun. Yes. 

Tara: Thank you. All of that. Yes. Thank you. I’m going to put the servant as leader in our Goodreads list as well. We have a Goodreads list from all of the amazing books that our guests recommend. And that is one I’m going to also add because it sounds really like it’s really impacted the way that you approach leadership.

Bob, it’s been so, so great to have you here, especially you. At this time in, uh, our country, and we’re just very grateful. So thanks for sharing your story, your dad’s story, and sharing your experiences and ideas with us today. Where can people find you online? 

Bob: Ah, well, you can look me up on LinkedIn, of course.

Okie doke. Or at, you know, the, the WaldenSchool. org. I’m there as well. bthomas at the WaldenSchool. org if they would like to. You know, contact me and, you know, if they want to, uh, I’ll share the story with them as well, uh, as I said, I, I got, I got the, I have these books in my head. I’m trying to figure out how to write them, but, uh, you know, Aubrey, please share, share that story with whoever you like.

I, I really, You know, I wrote it for others to really be inspired by my dad. 

Aubrey: Thank you, Bob. Yes, 

Tara: I’ll be thinking of you. Have a, have a good rest of this calendar year and best wishes and hopes for the next. Okay. Thank you guys. Appreciate being here. Thank you.