50. How Experience Strategy Works For Independent Schools with David Willows & Suzette Parlevliet

[00:00:00] Welcome to Mindful School Marketing, your go-to podcast for personal and professional growth. We’re school marketers, business owners, and moms passionate about connecting other school professionals with tools and strategies for success. We love solving problems, exploring new ideas, and thinking outside the box. Let’s transform your school and life starting right now. This episode is brought to you by inquiry. Easily manage all your inquiries, tours, open houses and applications with a system designed by K through 12, education, marketing, and admissions professionals. Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Burch. And I’m Tara Clays. Today we’re joined by David Willows and Suzette Parli. David and Suzette are co-founders of Yellow Car, a leading training and consultancy firm focused on helping schools stand out through experience strategy. Welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Thanks for joining us from Europe this morning. It’s great to be with you. Yeah, thank [00:01:00] you for having. We are definitely excited you’re here and I can’t wait to dive in and learn more about Yellow Car. But you know, before we dive into official questions, can you tell us a little bit about yourselves and your journey and a little bit about how Yellow Car got started. I’m gonna let David start actually. . . That was a zoom pause, wasn’t it? . So, okay, so a bit about Alison, about yellow cars. So, um, Uh, for the last few years, Suzette and I, uh, were working at the International School of Brussels in Belgium. Um, I was actually the director of advancement there for 17 years, and over the last 10 years or so, worked with Suzette in my team. Uh, she began as a communications manager and then, uh, ultimately became the manager of experience. Uh, And, um, uh, we were leading an advancement team in that school. Um, and you know, this was a great opportunity for us to work [00:02:00] together and to work with some great colleagues. And at a certain point we just thought, you know, this might be the moment in our careers where it’s time, um, to take a leap and to jump into a yellow. Yeah. And so while we were working together, we were actually, uh, trying different things out already in, in, in terms of improving that experience. Um, and uh, we didn’t really have a name for it, but while we were making this new jumper, we’ve been taking all this learning from being in the score ourselves to, um, yeah, to this new venture called Yellow car. So you might be wondering what, uh, yellow car is really all about. Why do you call a company? It’s about the experience strategy, uh, yellow car. Well, uh, it turns out that both Suzette and I, even though we were children, uh, very different periods in the, uh, in the last few years, um, I’m much older than Suzette, but have we still played the same game as. Um, we sat in the backseat of our parents’ cars on long car journeys and, um, [00:03:00] um, we’d, we’d be bored sometimes, so we would play yellow car, we’d look out on the journey for that yellow car with our siblings. And it turns out that when we spotted one, uh, we declared ourselves the winner. And, and I think one of the things as we talked about that childhood game, um, and I think actually we played it ourselves on a road trip once in North America through the motorways of Connecticut. We didn’t, we actually, we did. And, and it was a, it was a boring journey, journey until that point, but we realized that we started to see yellow cars everywhere. And a lot of what we are doing is, is helping schools stand out, uh, like the yellow car in an age where frankly, it’s really d. For schools to stand out and be seen as different, uh, in the market. That’s really interesting. I was very curious about the name. So, um, I’m not familiar with the yellow car game. We have a lot of car games here in the States, but um, I’m not familiar with Yellow Car as a game. We [00:04:00] have punch buggy. Which do you have that game where there’s a little Volkswagen? You know, we wanted a little beat. Shaped Volkswagen cars, you have to punch the person next to you if you see a punch buggy. That that there is . There is what we’re, what we’re discovering. Actually, really interesting you say that is that in different parts of the world there are different versions of the same game. So I think in. Canada, it’s, it’s a green Laurie. And, um, you know, obviously the yellow car game is not gonna work in Manhattan. Um, or where I’m today in BlueCrest, , you know, you’d just be, um, punching your brother or sister the whole journey. So, you know, I, I think, I think one of the things we’re realizing is that, Maybe as children, we all played a similar kind of game, but it was a different thing that we were trying spot. And it’s so nice to see all those reactions from people, right? Because whenever we tell this story of the yellow car, it brings people back to their own childhood, to their own long car journeys with their siblings. And whether it was indeed like just [00:05:00] shouting out, you saw yellow car, or pinching or punching via, uh, your brother or sister, it’s, uh, it, it re. So, um, yeah, it, it, it’s interesting People talk about yellow car, but they equally talk about yellow cab or the yellow bus or the yellow taxi, but they usually get the name, or at least the, the, the color, right. . Yeah. Yeah. I love it. What a great story. Thanks for sharing that. Let’s dive into experience strategy. So, uh, um, Bob and I have both seen you talk about this and we’re really interested in it as a topic and wanted to share it on our podcast as a result. So can you kind of give us a broad overview at first of what, what is experience strategy? Sure. I mean, I think, I think one of the, um, that’s easiest places to start is to, it’s, it’s about looking at your score. I’m gonna touch my glasses here if you’re watching me. Um, on the video, um, um, it’s looking through your score with a different lens, pair of lenses on, and they’re the experience [00:06:00] lenses. And, um, lemme take you to an example that probably we can all identify. Um, if you think about going to a fabulous hotel, um, one of the things about a fabulous hotel compared with just an ordinary hotel is that the experience feels different. And the reason why the experience is often feeling different is because every aspect of that. Uh, journey that you have from booking the room all the way to arriving at reception, all the way from being checked in and then reaching a room, and then, you know, maybe going for dinner that evening. That whole journey has been intentionally designed by someone and not just left a chance. Mediocre hotels just leave things to chance. Great hotels intentionally design every single stage of that journey, and that’s what we are trying to do when we take think about Yellow Car is take all of that experience and [00:07:00] thinking about experience and applying that. So the world of schools. Yeah. And the way we do that actually is, is uh, through this methodology that we call the life cycle of school experience because we believe that every family is on a journey and we have broken that journey down into six stages. So, uh, the first stage, which is the attraction stage, is when a family is looking for a. School for their child. So whether, uh, uh, uh, they are changing schools or they’re relocating or it’s just gonna be that very first time they’re talking to friends and family. They are, uh, looking on, on, on, on Google. They’re checking out websites. That’s that attraction phase. Then hopefully they get in touch with our school that is, that we’re entering now the admissions phase. So, so this is where they inquire. They come and visit the school. They go through that process. Hopefully at that point they’ve gone through the whole process. They enroll. School. So from that moment of enrollment until the first 30 days being in the school, we call that the induction phase. It’s onboarding those new families once [00:08:00] they are, uh, a part of that current community. We call that the engagement phase. This is where they’re actively engaging with the community, coming to events, uh, getting all those communications about the learning that’s happening. We’ve done so much work into getting those families in. So now we’re getting into. Fifth stage, the retention, uh, uh, stage where we’re trying to retain those families. And then ultimately, uh, the students, uh, graduate or family moves on. So they are departing from the current community and they are arriving into the alumni community. And we call that the departure arrival stage. And so we believe that, uh, uh, uh, That the experience strategy should be looking at every single touchpoint along that journey, all the way from attraction to, uh, um, to when a, a student ultimately leaves the community and is entering that alumni phase. I, I like the hotel reference. I, I haven’t read the whole book, but I’ve heard a lot of discussion about, there’s a book about, um, about Disney, [00:09:00] Walt Disney and the experience of Disney World and just the, like, the fantastic things that they do there and, and the little things that they do that don’t cost a lot of money, but that make the experience in, you know, in a Disney hotel for example, just stand out among others. So I. I think, um, you’re, you’re transitioning that into schools is, is really interesting because you don’t think about hotels in the same category as schools, but what you’re talking about, there’s a relationship there and that idea of experience. So I love that. And Disney is a great example there as well, right? You have mediocre theme hotels and you’ve got Disney, and it’s that idea of everyone has a role to play. So I mean, once, once someone puts their Mickey Mouse hat on and there are Mickey Mouse in Disney, they will stay Mickey Mouse until they leave the premises. And essentially in schools, when we work in schools, we enter that same type of role. There’s a certain role that we have to play and it’s important that we are mindful that families are in our [00:10:00] school. They. Ultimately our, our clients, our customers. And it is important that we are, uh, that we are intentional about the interaction that we have with them and, uh, um, that we can do these simple things as just smiling and welcoming them and saying hello. And, um, yeah, it’s the little things that often make the difference. I’m so glad that you all are kind of bringing light to this very important topic. Um, having worked in and with independent schools for quite a bit of time, that experience piece is so key cuz it can make or break, you know, you’ve worked so hard to get these families here. A and then, you know, we don’t pay attention to their experience. Like if they have a second grader and a fifth grader. Uh, how are those experiences? Like, what sort of emails are they getting? Are they having, you know, trouble navigating? Is it back to school night? Have conflicting times when you’re supposed to be in both classrooms. Like all, all those things matter to parents. Um, and so I’m so [00:11:00] grateful that you’re bringing light to this important topic. I’m curious, um, when you were describing the different stages, where do you see. Schools struggle the most? Like which stage are you? Like, wow, this is, this is the one where usually we’re great, we’re great, and then it’s like fall dropped So could you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question. Like, cause I think it, it was one of our questions as we started to establish yellow cars to think how do, how, first of all, how do we work? What is in place and how do we work out what is actually happening and measuring what is happening to that experience at different stages. So one of the things that we put in place and that we, we work with schools now to, to deliver is something that we call the school experience audit. It’s a series of 100 yes no questions that takes all of the experience we’ve had and people that we’ve spoken to and puts it into a, in, into an order that helps us underst. Whether the things that are necessary [00:12:00] are in place and whether those, also, those optional extra things are also in place at every stage. I think one of the things that we notice about. Um, about, you know, where you said use the word, you know, dropping the ball is that very often, um, the where schools drop the ball are in the transition moments. So often what you’ll see is, um, the admissions process, the marketing admissions process is spectacular. People feel welcomed, they feel like they can’t wait to get to the school, et cetera. And then once families are in the school, They equally feel like this is a good experience and and so on. But it’s that in betweenness that often is where you pass the bat on. Um, it’s not always a smooth, a bit like a relay. It’s not always a smooth from one person to the other. So that one, a lot of what we’re doing, going back to those experience classes is to stay. Let’s stop for a moment and think [00:13:00] at every stage. What does it feel like for a parent, for a student, even for a new employee, at each of these moments? And what we found is the incoming transition. So how do people transition into the school? And also the exiting transition are also places, um, where, where we feel that experience is, is breaking down because, you know, we, we know, we worked in schools for so many years, getting kids in. Is key to the health of the organization. But we also know from an experience point of view, helping families transition outta the school is just as important, particularly in terms of future word of mouth, uh, marketing that they may be having. And, and, and so, you know, this, this is some of the things we’re, we’re learning as we, we think about, you know, what, what that experience is actually. For families in so many schools around the world. And we’ve now got enough data that we can actually begin to look at, um, [00:14:00] you know, some common trends across schools that we’ve worked with and schools that we’ve audited to kind of say, yes, there are some patterns emerging in, and, and we can draw some conclusions. Um, And it, and it has a lot to do with that intentionality, right? So, uh, that attraction phase is essentially a big chunk of your marketing. The admissions phase is your admissions, and then, uh, uh, the, the, the induction phase. Uh, It really depends per school, but there’s typically in many schools, not one single person who really feels responsible for that. Whereas when you then get into the engagement phase, it’s often your internal communications. And so it, it is about who is ultimately responsible and has that oversight to make sure that those families, whether they are entering your community or where, whether they are, um, uh, leaving your community, uh, that they have all the information they need to either. Be welcomed in a, in a, in a good way. Or to leave. Well, and uh, yeah, it, it, it’s, it’s coming back to that, [00:15:00] that sense of being intentional, intentional about every stage of the journey. Yeah, I’d love to get some concrete examples of how you’ve seen this approach make a difference for schools. You know, like, like the Disney example, I think the Disney example was something like, they give you a free drink out by the pool or something like that. What are some examples that you can, that you can point to, um, just to give some people some ideas? Uh, yeah. Um, I mean, there’s probably a few that we could talk about and, and, and far too many, um, ideas for, for, for this podcast. Maybe another one, but let’s throw some out there. One is, I think if we go back to our own experience in working at the International School of Brussels, one of the things we developed there was something called an experience room where we intentionally designed an admission space. Four prospective families that was rooted in the idea of, uh, creating a space where families could learn and not just receive [00:16:00] information about whether or not this is the right school for their children. So we took everything back to square one. And we redesigned this as an interactive space with an interactive game using technology in this space that created a different kind of environment that was, um, maybe surprising. It wasn’t what they expected, but it was also intentionally. Connecting families to both the tradition and the innovation parts of the school’s brand, and was helping us portray our messaging, but in a way that was also helping us stand out. So that was one example I think that, um, is, is worth. Um, mentioning, um, Suzette, I’m sure you can think of others. And I think what’s important to mention here is part of it is the story. Part of it is the approach that we’re in intentional about it was the game, but it’s equally the space and the furniture that we were thinking about when designing that experience room. So if you imagine that a family comes in with a second grade and a fourth grade and a teenager, for example, and. [00:17:00] Coming, uh, to visit the school. They’re sitting in their chairs now. We chose those, um, big egg chairs, so they, they kind of cocoon you. They, they, they hak as you sit there, but what it equally does, it gives every single person in that room the same space. And for us, that resonated with giving every single person in a room that same voice, because we wanted to make sure that also the students and the kids that they were heard and, uh, that we were clear on what was important for them in finding the right school. And, uh, and it’s thinking about these different types of elements, that it’s not just about, uh, having a, a, a, like a, a fancy interactive screen. that is surprising. But every single, uh, every single element in that room was, uh, uh, was thought through. When we think about, if we’re thinking back of that journey, the way we often set it up is, um, uh, in three layers. So what are some of the foundational elements that we need to have in place? What are some of these basics? What are then, [00:18:00] uh, uh, some of those improvements we can set up to further enhance that experience? . And then what are some of the moments that are a bit icing on the cake? You know, those, those, um, those moments that spark joy or surprise or wonder, some of those intangibles. And, uh, it’s often when you have those foundations in place and you start building, it’s, it’s these moments that are often leaving a lasting memory for families. So I think as we think about the work that we’re doing now with schools, I guess every school is different. So there are some schools where we’re, where we’re now helping them think about, Becoming a more integrated team and, um, you know, maybe it’s the same in, uh, in different parts of America as it is in Europe, but we, we actually see a lot of siloed teams and we believe that siloed teams lead to siloed experiences for families. So one of the things we do is actually work with schools to actually help them become more integrated because the more integrated they [00:19:00] become, The, the less siloed that experiences for families in other schools. In other school, for example, we’re working, um, that they’re actually going through a crisis. And so we’re actually helping them manage the crisis because that crisis itself needs to also be intentionally designed so that you can begin to lead people outta a crisis into a more positive, um, uh, place. And, um, in other schools, it’s about helping them think. The visual experience because we know that the visual experience, um, the work of a graphic designer, um, for example, is not just about a logo, but it’s about how that. Everything that is visual is seen at every different stage of that life cycle and helping schools discover and uncover that coherence that changes the experience and the experience of the brand. So these are, these are lots of different ways of working that take us to the heart of those [00:20:00] principles, which is let’s do these things intentionally and not just leave them to. Yeah, so it, it’s ultimately, it’s how can we create this integrated and coherent experience for families? And it starts by being integrated and coherent, right? From the input, input point of view. Right? Yeah. That’s amazing. I think you’ve hit on so many amazing things here. I mean, I’m just nodding my head and going, yes, yes, yes. I mean, when you’re talking about the silos, I mean, we see that all the time and, and how important, and I love the word intentional, like you’re u very intentional about looking at these things because oftentimes in schools, you know, sometimes we don’t. An opportunity to step back and be intentional. So having like someone come in and and kind of set that tone of intentionality is really important. So I’m just so thrilled and excited about all this, but I do wanna touch on, so the we are marketing podcast . So I am curious, and you did kind of hint hinted this earlier, [00:21:00] but how does experience strategy fit into a school’s overall marketing? So I think one, one of the ways is that, um, to think about this is to think about, um, who, who are your best marketers? And we are firmly convinced that the, your best marketers in a school are people who are currently in your school. And we are hun, 100% convinced that most of our schools, the repeat business is coming from the, the current parents. And that word of mouth is something we need to preserve. We need to really build up and, and, and, and manage it in an intentional way. So for us, the mo what we would be arguing is that the more schools are investing in. Designing that experience and enhancing that experience for families so that they just can’t help but talk about it, that’s gonna have a bigger impact than, let’s say, plowing lots of money into a social media campaign and [00:22:00] doing nothing else. So we’re not saying don’t plow money into a social media campaign. We’re saying if that’s all you do, you may be finding that there’s a disconnect between what you’re saying out there and what families are actually experiencing when they’re in your. And the reason why that’s so important is if, if you look at, uh, some of the research that a friend of ours did, uh, she was looking at if people have a positive experience, they tend to share it with four to five people, the people closest to them. So that’s friends, families, and they will talk about it for up to a year. Now, if they’ve had a bad experience, they will share it with anyone who wants to hear it for as long as they remember. So if we leave that experience to chance and there is gap, Into that experience and we leave it to chance and it, it’s negative, then that will become bad marketing because it’s bad word of mouth. And, and it’s, it’s, this is where that integration is so essential because marketing is not, shouldn’t [00:23:00] just be its own silo where it’s talking about campaigns and website, that should be a window into what that real experience in the school is. So we need to think about what are those windows. They are, they are current families, they are alumni. They are, are they, they are the websites setting the campaigns. But ultimately that is a whole holistic approach that we should take. And it is about understanding what, what type of experience we want to create within the school. Having everyone on board, having a common understanding of what that should be, and with that focus and with that intentionality, um, that is ultimately, uh, how you can then market the. Let’s talk about a digital experience, because especially with Covid, a lot of the, um, and, and even with, even before Covid or without Covid, you know, the first experience that many people have with the school is the website or their online presence, whether it’s social media or Google result. Uh, so how do [00:24:00] you, how do you, um, some of these ideas are wonderful. require in person. Um, so how do you translate some of this to digital experiences? That’s a very good question actually. When we started, uh, uh, when, when in 2000, uh, 20, the pandemic started, we actually moved that experience room into a digital space somehow, right? So it is, we had this screen with the, all these windows into what the learning looked like in school, and we tried to create a, um, uh, yeah, a similar digital experience at the heart. Of what we were trying to do in that room is getting a better understanding of what was important to that family to then help them getting the information that they needed or understand what the school is like in order to decide whether that’s the best, uh, uh, best school for them. Um, there, I think as long as, uh, uh, [00:25:00] as long as we are clear on, uh, The ultimate purpose, the ultimate goal that we have. And as long as we’re intentional about what we’re trying to do, then step by step, um, you can create experiences that will make a difference. And if I reflect, I think on that experience room, it is about starting with one thing and then adjusting it along the way. Sorry, I interrupted, but one of the things I was going to just add as well now is that, um, You, you know, we talked about whether it’s the digital experience or the in-person experience. The fact of the matter is, I don’t think most of us have any idea about what that experience actually is. What it, what does it feel like for parents? Because often we don’t ask them. So again, one of the things that we really want to be launching in 2023 is something called the Felt Experience Indicator. And this is going to be a tool alongside the audit that actually helps schools measure, uh, [00:26:00] every stage of that journey, including the digital, what it is, um, that they’re experiencing. And whether, um, in the experience strategy world, um, there’s people like Joe Pine, who was the father of, um, experience strategy. He wrote a book called The Experience Economy, and he often talks about things like, um, time well spent. And so one of the questions that, you know, we might be asking, uh, are around this idea. Is, is this stage of the journey, has it been time well spent? And it’s that kind of insight that we think will give us a lot more, um, data to actually then shake those experiences, whether they’re digital or in person. I love that question. Is it time well spent? I mean this what if, what an amazing and helpful tool for schools because, you know, oftentimes we’re not understanding the, the questions to ask right. Or the things to look at. So I think that tool will really help them kind of [00:27:00] hone in on understanding the experience. So I’m excited for, for that, for next year. Right. Um, so I’m gonna shift us to, Um, our mindfulness question. So as you know, we’re a mindful school marketing podcast, um, and we talked about mindfulness. So, um, I’m curious, you know, how do you define mindfulness and are there ways you use mindfulness in this approach to experience strategy? I mean, you mentioned intentionality, which is a, a term of frame of mindfulness for sure, but I’d love to hear more about it. I think that’s certainly where we would begin is that, um, You know, sometimes it’s about, um, just stepping back, which I think is an act of mindfulness, taking perspective and putting those glasses on, which is also an act of, of intentional, uh, intentionality. And be and and stepping away from all of the busyness of school life. We [00:28:00] know how busy schools are, how complicated schools are as places, but actually taking that word of intentionality and thinking, maybe we can’t change everything, but can we change one thing? Cuz everything that we do is going to make a difference. And I think this is where it’s not just about adding and doing more, uh, intentionality can also help us to think about what are some of the things we should do less or what are some of the things we shouldn’t be doing. Um, Yeah, it is about taking that step back. It’s almost sitting on the other seat, right? Whether that is sitting in the parent seat to understand what the parent is going through, but equally just taking a step away from the day-to-day that we’re doing and, and yeah, and, and trying to be intentional what we’re actually trying to do. So that would definitely be our starting point. I was just gonna say, I mean, I think as well we’re a new company and one of the things that we’re trying to be mindful about is, is how [00:29:00] do we establish ourselves as a new company? How can we be mindful and intentional about it? Um, how can we be intentional about the routines that we now establish, um, when we could be working every hour of the day and we probably shouldn’t be. So how can we be intentional? The routines and rituals and habits that we set up. How can we be intentional about the times we create to reflect, to read, to learn from others? Um, and I think this is, this is even when we do events, we’re having to think very carefully about what kind of. Experiences are we creating for people or how do we leave them making us feel? And I think this is, there’s we’re, you know, there’s, it’s easy for us to talk about, we should be designing experiences. And what we hope is that we’re also trying to model that as best we can. We don’t always get it right, but we’re trying to model that in a way that is learning [00:30:00] from maybe mistakes that we were made, were making in the past for many. Yeah, I think, um, if we take your car, your yellow car and make it a metaphor, we can say, you know, keeping your eye on the road right, on the road ahead and, and where you’re heading, um, is, is part of that. So I I love that. Um, are you ready to move on to our rapid fire questions, ? Oh, sure. Bring it on. So this first, this first one is, um, is my favorite, so I love to be able to ask it. If you could put one book as mandatory reading in the high school curriculum, what would it be? Okay, I’m gonna answer first. Um, for me it was, uh, it would be Oliver Sachs, um, everything in its place, first Loves and Last Tales. It was his second posthumously published series of essays shortly after he died, and I found it. In a bookstore in Bucharest by chance. And, um, I do think that even if, if it’s about [00:31:00] first loves, it’s remarkable. And if it’s about, um, lessons from a man who is at the end of an extraordinary life, excuse me, then, um, I think, I think there’s so much to learn from an extraordinary human. Yeah, for me it would actually be, uh, the power of choice. It’s a, it’s a very new book by Dutch author. She’s a coach, Kelly Bakers. And mostly because, um, in high school it’s so much the, the, those final years are so intense with all the exams. And this is very much giving me other side of, while we are in the midst of making big decisions about the next phase of our life, what are some of the, um, , what are some of the important controls that we have ourselves about the choices that we make and how they can impact this program become, uh, the best version of ourselves? Oh, I’m so excited to read both those books. Thank you for sharing. All right, our next question. What is one app that you [00:32:00] couldn’t live without? Uh, for me, does that count ? I have more than 10,000 photos on my phone with more than 1500 videos. I wouldn’t know what to do without it. , I think I have even more I, I think, I think for me it would be Strava. I’m, I’m not a good runner, but I too do try and run most days. And, um, you know, probably one of the thing only things that motivates me is, you know, can, can this, can this app tell me something good about myself, uh, at the end of everyone? So, um, I’d be lost without. Okay. Next rapid fire question. Um, what are you reading right now? I just bought the book, uh, by, um, uh, Daniel Pink on The Power of Regret. It’s one of his newest books. Yeah. And I love the idea of how he’s talking about, uh, how, uh, looking backwards can help us move [00:33:00] forward. Um, So I, I haven’t finished yet, so no further insights there, but I, I, I’m recommended from what I’ve heard so far. Yeah, it’s great. I’ve seen, I saw him do a, a talk on that book, um, when it first came out. Yeah, he’s done some great, he’s done some other great books as well. That’s a good one. Well, I love the idea of like, everyone’s always like, don’t look, don’t dwell on your regrets or something like that. But this. I mean, it’s hard and sometimes maybe it’s important. So I’m excited to put that book on my reading list. Um, for me, I, um, Bel Matt is, um, the Myth of Normal, um, I think is, is a book that, um, um, just in the process of reading, I, I had the privilege of hearing him speak. Um, last summer, and he was just such an incredible, in fact, funnily enough, now I’m speaking, I realize that he’s the closest to Oliver Sex, um, uh, um, for the previous person. So he very similar sort of person that is just an incredible human [00:34:00] being. With huge insights into the human condition and helps us understand who we are. And it’s a bit like when you read or when you listen to him speak, it’s like, um, good therapy. So, um, yeah, that’s what I’m reading at the moment. I love that. I’m so excited. So we have a good reads list, so Mindful School Marketing, good Reads list. We’re gonna add all these books in there. And Tara and I have been slowly working our way through because our, we have such wonderful recommendations from all our guests. So these will be some great ones to add in. Um, so our last rapid fire question, what is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us with? I can begin with this one because I’ve done, I’ve done some reflecting on this. It’s the end of the year. And, uh, looking at the, the workshops that we’ve recently done, it often, you know, we can often not start something because it seems either too big or too insignificant. And, um, uh, and if you, if you’re just, if you just take it one step at a time, but you’re [00:35:00] consistent with it, you can come such a long way. Yeah, don’t, don’t be discouraged. And if you think about just taking it one step at a time, we can just do such amazing things. My piece of advice, um, I think I would say to anybody out there who is thinking of after 17 years of becoming a director, advancement, jumping ship, and setting up their own company, uh, ideally with someone as good as Suzette. Um, do it and do it today because you’ll never regret it. This for us is such an adventure, um, that we, we really, um, are so excited about, you know, the conversations we’re having, what we’re learning, the extent to which we can really take control of, you know, how we grow and, um, the schools that we connect with around the world. So that would be my advice if you are wavering on the fence. Um, then, uh, I would just say jump. [00:36:00] Excellent. That’s exciting. As, uh, Aubrey and I know from, um, jumping into our own ventures, it is, it is something that, um, gives you a lot of, uh, appreciation for, uh, for working for yourself too, . All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people find you online? And can we look for yellow you in a yellow car somewhere? ? That would be great. Would it? It? Yeah. So everyone can, uh, have a look at their website, yellow car.io. But we also have this, uh, uh, free community space, community yellow car.io, where we already have more than 400, uh, uh, people working in schools and with schools connecting with one another around this idea of experience strategy, uh, rerun some workshops on there on a monthly basis as well. Um, so anyone is welcome to join us, uh, right. Thank you so much for being with us today. We’ve learned so much and I know our audience appreciates, um, everything that you’ve shared with us. Been a pleasure. Inquiry Tracker is the all in one CR R M solution used by over [00:37:00] 250 schools. Easily manage all your inquiries, tours, and open houses. Key Instant Analytics help you manage and grow a robust pipeline. So end spreadsheets forever. The Smart Online Application System with Powerful Document Upload is a game changer. No school is too small or too big, and their Fast Start program will get you up and running in no. Best of all the system is designed by K12 education, marketing, and admissions professionals. Check out Inquiry tracker@inquirytracker.net. That’s inquiry with me tracker.net. Thanks for joining us on the Mindful School Marketing Podcast. We’d love it if you pop into iTunes and leave up review five Star Preferred. Let us know how you like the show. It helps us improve what we’re doing and helps others find us too.