45. Valuable Tips for Multicultural School Marketing with Maritza Lizama and Pamela Nieto
In this episode, we are joined by Maritza Lizama and Pamela Nieto, founders of Captiva Branding, a full-service marketing and communications agency based in Washington, DC. With years of marketing experience, these two work together to promote small businesses and nonprofits through powerful storytelling, strategy, and today give us their top insights on better marketing your small school to multicultural audiences!
About Maritza Lizama and Pamela Nieto:
Maritza Lizama and Pamela Nieto are the dynamic duo behind Captiva Branding, a female-founded, full-service marketing and communications agency based in Washington, DC. With a combined 30+ years of experience, they help bold and mighty small businesses and nonprofits simplify their marketing and clarify their messaging. As brand therapists, they help build healthy and vibrant brands through powerful storytelling and strategy to captivate their audience’s hearts, minds, and wallets.
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Aubrey: Welcome to Mindful School Marketing. I’m Aubrey Bursch.
Tara: And I’m Tara Claeys. Today we’re joined by Maritza Lizama and Pamela Nieto. They are the dynamic duo behind Captiva Branding, a female founded full service marketing and communications agency based in Washington DC. With a combined 30 years of experience they help bold and mighty small businesses and nonprofits simplify their marketing and clarify their messaging. As brand therapists, they help build healthy and vibrant brands through powerful storytelling and strategy to captivate their audience’s, hearts, minds, and wallets. What a great intro. Welcome, you two. We’re so glad you’re here.
Maritza: Hola, hola! We’re super excited to have this conversation with you guys. Thank you for having us.
Aubrey: And we’re excited that you’re here. I can’t wait to dive into this topic because I think it’s huge and will be so helpful to our schools. But before we get started, can you just tell us a little bit more about yourselves and like maybe your journey and your business. We’d love to hear more.
Pamela: Yes. Well, Maritza and I- we’re two Latina entrepreneurs from Columbia and in Salvador. We are pretty obsessed with marketing and branding. And I’ll say that our mission is to humanize brands, to connect them authentically and empathetically with their audiences. And one of our specializations is multicultural branding and marketing.
Tara: That’s great. Thank you so much. We’re super interested in talking more about multicultural marketing, especially as it applies to independent private schools. So let’s start by just diving in- What comes to mind as things to consider when marketing schools to a multicultural audience?
Maritza: I think it starts with a genuine interest in getting to know that community and serving them and in connecting with them. I think when you. A curious mind, it’s an open mind. And when you consider diversity, equity, and inclusion and how the country as a whole is having this, almost like awakening around that, if you start with that genuine interest in an audience that you are unfamiliar. And don’t know, put your biases aside and just have the curiosity, the intellectual curiosity to ask good questions. Pam, what else would you say?
Pamela: It’s about knowing your audience, right? Like beyond the demographics, know their psychographics behaviors, educate, including like their education level, their barriers, motivaters. Their preferred modes of communication. Also like their cultural factors and values that matter to that specific audience. Is it family, education, family recognition? So using culturally appropriate imagery and colors also will reflect what you want to attract. And the last thing I’ll say is, identify what is that value that you bring to that multicultural audience? What will matter to them to wanna come to you?
Tara: Yeah. Yeah. Let’s even dial back a little bit and let’s talk about this word multicultural, right? You are Latina women- that’s obviously one culture that you speak to, but there are many different cultures. So can we try to narrow down what that means? Are you speaking when you’re working with your the organizations you work with, are you primarily talking to them about speaking to a Hispanic audience? Tell me a little bit more, tell us a little bit more about multicultural and what that encompasses.
Maritza: We are so fortunate to live in the DMV area, which has the glorious melting pot from, food to culture, to languages from all over the world. You throw a rock and you find somebody from another side of the world. So I think that gives all of us a unique perspective. So that’s the first one. When it comes to our multicultural marketing, there are two specific groups that we specialize in. One is the Latino market, the bicultural bilingual market, and just there you could spend your entire life specializing in that. We also do a lot of work with the African American community and whether it’s DEI work or other types of things because of the non-profits that we partner with and the companies that are serving a variety of different people. The Asian culture is something that we are familiar with, but we don’t necessarily specialize in. We usually partner with somebody else who knows it intimately, is part of the community and has a much more focused lens on that.
Aubrey: This is fascinating. I love this. I, I cuz I’m, I believe we all are all lifelong learners, right? And so I feel like I’m learning and growing along with this conversation as well. So it’s very interesting. I’d love kind of your guidance on this. So schools often are like, how do we attract, people in this culture? Or we really want more, diversity in our school or something, but they just don’t know where to start. And often they can do it in a way that might be perhaps insensitive or something around that. So can you give some direction for those people who just don’t know where to start and how to do that?
Pamela: I would say that, you know, start by hiring experts in the area, right? Because you don’t know what you don’t know. It’s Maritza and I, we started our business. We are great at marketing and branding, but we don’t know, but we don’t know about managing a business. So we hire an expert to help us, to guide us, right? So that, I, think that’s the best place to start. To, hiring either a marketing agency that specializes in it or even like a firm that does language access, right? Like they also know a lot about like different cultures. But marketing agencies do take the time to do the market research and they know how to connect with that audience. So I think that’s a great-
Maritza: I would say that if they don’t have the budget to do that and they just wanna test the waters and just see, they could take allies or people in their community who may be representative of the audience that they want to connect with. So let’s say that it is an Asian parent in your community. Just interview them. Literally just ask them questions and have that genuine curiosity and interest in like, hey or like if you know of somebody in a different culture that is interested in putting their children in a private school- what are those things that they’re looking for? Why would they forego public school? And choose a private school and just start to get to know the community that you’re interested in to tiptoe in it, dip your toe into that without necessarily spending a ton of money on research at the beginning. But really it starts with research, you can’t skip that step. And because you don’t know what you don’t know, how do you ask questions on, on something unknown? It’s okay, you’re going to Mars. What questions do you ask about Mars? Like how do you know who lives in on the planet? So it is just that one thing that should be encouraging and maybe put people at ease is that at the end of the day, we’re all humans and parents do share some values. They do have some common fears, some common struggles, some common dreams. So as much as we emphasize being aware of the differences, being culturally sensitive, choosing words that are in alignment with that community, even though we are advocates of that, we also understand that at the end of the day, these are parents, these are families. These are students that have some commonalities, so try to find what, where those are if you don’t have the expertise in- okay, how do you speak to them in different languages or in different culturally appropriate ways.
Tara: Yeah, the research is really important and I think with any business, and with schools too, we make assumptions without having data to back it up. And we’ve talked a lot about data and some episodes of this podcast as well. So having that information and then following up with some in person type things, like you’re talking about I think is really important. So what are some ways that storytelling can be used to connect and incorporate diversity for a school? I’m, I’m a website person, so I’ll talk, we can talk about websites, but obviously there are other ways, social media print materials, that type of thing. But let’s talk a little bit about storytelling and diversity.
Maritza: Yeah. Storytelling has been around since humans could talk, and that is the way that we transfer information in a memorable way, and we believe that it’s at the heart of great marketing. So storytelling is at the heart of any great marketing. Even more important when it comes to multicultural marketing. We use stories to humanize brands. Like we really just use them as a way to paint a better picture of something that’s complex. We want to use it to empathize with the audience and it shows that you took the time to get to know them because yeah, I can see myself in that story. Yeah, that’s me. I’m that mom. I’m that dad. I’m that student. So storytelling is just one of the most powerful ways to talk about your company, your brand, your school.
Pamela: And one great way to storytell is obviously video. Video is huge right now. We can’t empathize that enough and it’s gonna be like, it is the marketing trend that you should be going towards. And we are going for 2023. So definitely a great way to tell those stories authentically and empathetically is through video.
Aubrey: oh my gosh, we’re in sync. I love video. It is such a great and powerful like emotion. Like you connect so, so much with a video, that emotion That can’t be done any other way. So I love, so you’re saying predictions 2023. Video, right?
Maritza: Just over indexes. You know, out of the three modes of communication, video, audio, or the written word, all three of them can be very powerful. You have to know what you are best at, but nothing beats video.
Aubrey: I, I’m, I’m so glad. I’m a big fan of video as well. So I’m curious, like, when we’re talking about storytelling, sometimes people just think of it as this like abstract thing, like storytelling, right? And they’re not like, like, what is that? So could you give like an example that could show like, this is storytelling for this non-profit, this is like what it looked like, or this is what it might look like. Could you dive into an example of that? I think that would be really helpful to people.
Maritza: Yes. We wanna always make it relevant to your audience, right? So for a school, what is a story that they could tell? They could tell a story about a student that may have been struggling in a public school environment or that the parents were looking for maybe more attention or more rigorous academic achievement, whatever the things were that parent motivated them to seek out. It tells the story of the before and after. People wanna see the turnaround, the underdog story, the what was it that they, that they looked like before they interacted with you and then what did it look like afterward? It could also be that, children showing that this child started at this level and then after they, they were in a private school environment. They had this other outcome. I can give you an example of my own children. I put mine in a private school since he was four, and then I took him out temporarily because I wanted to do a Spanish immersion option at a magnet school. And he was, he went in there and he was already ahead of everybody, not because he’s necessarily smarter than, than I think all kids are smart and they all have talents and they’re all gifted. He had just been in an environment that was in a private school environment that always taught more and it was more rigorous. So when he went in there, he ended up being ahead. He was put in advanced classes and all sorts of things. When he came out after two and a half years, because the pandemic hit, we put him back into private schools and then he was behind. When they did that standardized testing stuff, you could see the dip and after just a year you could see it come back up. And not only did it come back up, he’s now at the 99th percentile of those testing. And that should be something that would be like a testament to this is the impact that private school had in this particular student for storytelling.
Tara: Wow. That’s a great story. Yeah, a wonderful-
Maritza: And you, and you’ll probably remember that, right? You won’t remember the stats. You won’t necessarily remember-
Tara: Yeah. Yeah. And to hear you tell it and to hear the pride and joy in your voice too helps as well. So that’s where we get into that whole video idea too. Let’s talk about some-
Maritza: I had a teacher parent conference. So I’m, it’s like fresh in my mind.
Tara: That’s great. So let’s talk about some mistakes that organizations might make when it comes to branding or messaging to this diverse audience. What are some common mistakes that you see being made? Obviously you talked about, not knowing your audience, but give us some examples if you can, or some things that you’ve seen happen.
Pamela: Yeah. So it, it starts exactly with that not doing your homework, right? We’re in a school environment, so not doing your homework, it, you cannot skip, you cannot skip not doing your homework and doing the research on your audience, and looking at different sources, not just one. Because, I’ll speak for Latinos, Asians, I mean everybody, every single culture there are subcultures, right? And we’re not all be, sometimes we’re all put in like one box fits all, but that’s usually not how it happens. Like Maritza and I, I’m from Columbia, she’s from El Salvador. She, grew up here since she was very little. I came here when I was 19. We have very two different cultures and backgrounds. So doing that research can definitely help you come up with the content and how you’re going to reach that audience, interview people as Maritza said, not just survey them to like, check a few box a box. And like people lack using culturally in culturally appropriate imagery and language. Know what’s the education level of your audience and how you need to speak with them. And, and I think that last one is like being aware of like their differences and like what are their struggles, What are their fears? What are their goals? You need to know what are the audience’s pain points in order to provide a solution and something that is of value to them in order to connect with them.
Maritza: I think the biggest mistake is assuming that it’s a one size fits all, and just look at the American culture. It’s not if you are dealing with a rural or suburban mom versus a city mom they have different stuff. Yes, they do have some common stuff, but you, just look at it on a simple terms that way. Add to that. Education levels, multicultural language barriers then you start getting really complex. So I think it’s underestimating how the audiences differ, even though you can put them in a box of Hispanics or African American or Asian, or Middle Eastern or African.
Pamela: I mean, I, I, I worked at the Greater Washington Hispanic Chamber of Commerce for a very long time. And one of the things that I struggled and tried to emphasize to like mainstream media was that, there are Latinos educated Latinos that read the Washington Post and New York Times. We read the Washington Business Journal. We’re not just Telemundo television. Yes, those have their market audiences. But not everybody is there to watch telemundo television. Sometimes people don’t see the value of that in, in, and like learning about the different segments in the different cultures.
Aubrey: Absolutely. So it really does come down to research though, cuz if they did the research and got to know, the cultures and the subcultures and everything like that, it would help them understand more, instead of just making assumptions and stuff like that. It sounds like research, research, research, research. You know, work with experts if you don’t know what you’re doing. And that would help you. Really move forward in a mindful way. I’m throwing the word mindful and respectful way, I think as well. As well as to meet your goals, right? Your end goals. I’m curious following up on that, if we could touch on language, do you recommend presenting content translated? Could you speak a little bit about that? Maritza: That goes back to knowing, are you speaking to a Spanish dominant or that language dominant community? Are you speaking to somebody who is bilingual but still prefers to get their stuff in, in, in their native language? Or are you speaking to somebody who’s like fully cultured, fully integrated, and maybe even prefers getting stuff in English? But still has a connection to their heritage, still has their culture incorporated in them. And as humans, we are just not one dimensional. And and we just have other layers to us that make us colorful people. So it would be in understanding that. Pamela?
Pamela: Yeah, I think that’s it.
Tara: So, I guess trying to, get a little bit more information about that, yeah. In, In what circumstances would you, would you offer a, let’s say Spanish, because we know that’s a, that’s, a dominant second language in many parts of the country. And I know for nonprofits that I work with, oftentimes because they’re serving people in that community, we do translate content and have, a version of a webpage or we have a, a widget or a plugin that will add Google Translate to the page so that it can be translated. So there are ways to- I see you shaking your head about that. So there are ways to provide, a manual translation so that it’s done better than Google. Or if you wanna just check that box, right? Having Google Translate. Can you talk a little bit about those options and I would imagine if you’ve done your research and you determine that you have a large, let’s say, Hispanic community, that would appreciate having something in their language, what would you recommend the steps that, that a school might take to create that translated content for that audience?
Maritza: You know, translating an entire website is a huge endeavor. It really is. So we actually don’t recommend translating an entire website. You’re going to have your English version, your primary one. There are certain sections that just need additional clarification. So maybe the admissions process. Maybe the application process. Maybe there’s just some like things where they get their frequently asked questions and something that the parents need in their native language. I would start there in those specific landing pages or those specific sections, take those. You can start with Google Translate. That’s just like table stakes and it gets about 60 to 70% there. It gets you about that. The other piece, to get you to a hundred percent is having a human review it who is a native speaker. In the education level that you want them to get. So we talk about writing to a fifth grade level or to an eighth grade level, to have clarity in English, right? That’s for copywriters. They need to write to a certain level so that it’s understandable, easily scannable and everything. Same thing goes for Spanish or for a different language. We don’t call it translating, we call it trans creating, which means that you’re taking the concept the essence or the understanding of what it is in English, and then adapting it to the English language because a straight translation often will sound like an encyclopedia will sound like a dictionary, but that’s actually not the way that parents or students understand or understand it. And it’s just some, Sometimes it’s like you can say it in three ways, but that third way is the way that everybody in that community uses. That’s the way that they use it. They even use Spanglish at times. So having that 20, 30% of a human expert look at it gets you to, to the A plus.
Tara: That’s a really excellent point. I think a lot of times people, organizations will hire a translator and so they’re not getting that, they’re getting, an encyclopedic translation. And so I think that’s a really great point. The other thing I wanna mention too, from a cultural standpoint, as well as language, and sorry for the, all the website focus, but, that’s a, that’s, you know, that’s a really important marketing piece for a school.
Tara: Is understanding the devices that your audience uses. And I know from my work with nonprofits that the Hispanic community oftentimes might not have a computer and they’re on their phone more than their computers. So it’s really important to have the information available to them. And if you provide a translated version of your content for some pages, that it works really well on a phone too, because a lot of times what I’ve seen organizations do is they’ll have their webpage in English and they wanna provide a translated version of it, and they have a link to a PDF instead of a webpage, which is really hard to read on a phone. So having that, that mobile accessibility in mind when you’re talking to your audience and what device they’re working on. I just wanted to mention that too.
Maritza: Yeah, that’s huge. Pamela: Like knowing even like the nationalities of the people you’re talking to the, the language defers, right? Like Maritza, she uses different words to communicate in Spanish than I do, but-
Maritza: She has to translate stuff to me. She has to translate. I’m like, what does that say? I don’t even know what that, there’s a, I know it’s Spanish, but I don’t even know what that word means.
Pamela: But so do you want like a more neutral Spanish or are you speaking to a Mexican audience or a Salvadorian audience? That also has, its different, its differences. And I, I also did last year a, a survey not a survey, a focus group, . In Baltimore City and with Spanish parents on how they consumed information and with this company that I was working with, they decided that, that they needed a and it was a school that they needed a Facebook page specifically in Spanish because that’s where like their audience was going to get the information. And they were also creating groups, several groups like pods in WhatsApp to communicate with the parents. WhatsApp, it’s a great app to communicate with, anyone that doesn’t live in DC. Not in DC-
Maritza: In the United States, Yeah. States it’s one of the most universal apps that are used to communicate instantly. Pamela: Exactly, and you can schedule messages through there. You can groups, business accounts, like all kinds of stuff. So it’s really easy to use. And it’s very it’s what people use everywhere outside of the US.
Tara: That is great info. Wow. Really valuable.
Aubrey: I’m so glad that you mentioned WhatsApp because that was gonna be my next follow up question is like the different, cuz you think about tools, right? And WhatsApp is, I feel like schools are like on that tip of the iceberg of understanding like WhatsApp and how it’s used and with different, and some schools have jumped dived right in. So I appreciate you bringing up like understanding the tools that people are using. And not just assuming everyone’s on Instagram or something like that. No. They want the Facebook group like you found out through your research and focus groups. So that’s amazing. I appreciate you bringing that up. I’d like to shift gears for a second- our podcast is about mindful school marketing, right? So we talk about mindfulness and how it applies to people who work in, school communities and in marketing. So I’d love to know, like, how do you define mindfulness? And, do you have any ways that you incorporate mindfulness into the work that you do?
Pamela: Yes, for, for us, mindfulness is self-awareness and, being present in the moment, even if it’s, for us as like a team of two or for, our vendors. It’s practicing a pause when everything around you is chaotic. Being able to pause and reassess and again, have like that self-awareness of where you are to make your next move. Maritza, what do you think?
Maritza: I think the, what I see as mindfulness is like the ability to pinch yourself and just ground yourself when your mind is racing, when your emotions are high, and just taking a deep breath to kind of interrupt that autopilot or that knee jerk reaction or something that’s happening. And it is so hard to do, but it’s so worth it. And then how do we practice mindfulness? We definitely have very different personalities. In particular how we process the input, the stimulus that’s coming at us. And Pam, how do you practice mindfulness?
Pamela: I mean, I’m more of like an inward type of person in that I like to process things internally, but I like to just go and exercise and think through. I get my bedside, but my best ideas when I go for a run or when I’m exercising and like maybe even listening to a podcast while I’m doing that. And Mari, how about you? Maritza: I am an outward processor, and it’s like you, if you can handle it, stick around. But if you can’t I say things out loud, I have to get it out of my system. If it’s in my system, it like, it drives me insane. So I need to get it out. And so I, as I’m processing the information, I’m looking, I’m looking at patterns. I’m just trying to talk my way through. And then I think for me, the way that I practice mindfulness is through gratefulness, where I do look for the silver lining. Like when stuff hits the fan, a client is unhappy about something, a relationship isn’t going the way that I want it to. It’s okay, at least we were able to talk about it. Oh okay, this ended, but hey, we get to start this new thing. Oh, so whenever I can find the silver lining and things, I think that just gives me like, Okay, it’s not so bad. We’re gonna make it through today.
Tara: That’s great. Thank you. And I love the combination of personalities that you have. We were, if we were gonna like diverge, we could totally talk about working as a team when you’re approaching differently. But we don’t have time. It’s time for rapid fire questions. So let’s jump into these. Okay. This first one I love. It’s one of my favorite things we do on this podcast and that is to ask you if you could put one book as mandatory reading on a high school curriculum, what would it be?
Maritza: We can, because it’s two of us, we’re gonna put two books on there. And the first one, Pam?
Pamela: Atlas of the Heart by Brene Brown. It teaches you about how to communicate your emotions effectively in every different like scenario, what words you need to use to communicate.
Maritza: Yeah, And then Atomic Habits by James Clear. As a high school student about to go into college. If you can master yourself and you can master your habits, I think you’re going to be an unstoppable force. So I would love for that to be on high school curriculums.
Aubrey: I love it. Those books are some of my favorites.
Aubrey: Great recommendations. All right, next rapid fire question. What is one app you can’t live without?
Pamela: You wanna say it at the same time?
Maritza: And if I need to cheat. It would be the weather app. I am like obsessed with the weather because it’s so schizophrenic in the DC area that I’m wearing a jacket. I’m not wearing a jacket. I am putting on a, a rain jacket, an umbrella. I need this, I need a sweater. I am obsessed with the weather, so the weather app.
Pamela: She can give you the 10 day forecast.
Maritza: Yeah, it’s dropping pretty dramatically on Sunday, guys. So bundle up and then it’s gonna be raining.
Tara: Thank you. Awesome. Okay, what are you reading right now?
Pamela: Well, I’m, I’m reading Strong Mothers Strong Sons by Dr. Meg Meaker. She’s a new client of ours, so obviously we’re biased, but her book is just amazing. If you have, you, your mom, and you have sons It’s a great book and I think Maritza, you’re reading it.
Maritza: Yeah, it’s Strong Fathers Strong Daughters. Even though I don’t have daughters I, obviously, I am a daughter and I do have a good relationship with my dad, but it just gives you insight into the dynamics of that relationship and how important they are. And it doesn’t matter if you’re a blended family or a divorce or single or it actually doesn’t matter. It’s about the relationship between you and your children. And so these are from our client, Dr. Meg Meaker, however we’re doing it because hey, we are empaths and we really invest into our relationships and what more than with our own children.
Pamela: Yeah. And they make great gifts. I’ll just say that.
Aubrey: I love it. Actually I got teary eyed listening cause I’m like, Yes, I want that. I wanna, I need to read more. I have a son and a daughter, so I’m, that will be my ever growing book list. These will be on it. So thank you for sharing. What is one great piece of advice you’d like to leave us?
Pamela: Always lead with empathy. Try to put yourselves in other people’s shoes. You know, you know, as, as you talk, as you, your actions- always try to, put yourselves in other people’s shoes and be kind.
Maritza: We’re, We’re lifelong learners. And you had mentioned that earlier and we know that seeking to understand versus to be understood. This is a quote from someone, I’m sorry I can’t remember who, but it’s that always live in a curious state of mind because it keeps you open and I think a podcast like this, asking questions, asking smart questions, just brings out the best in the people around you and it shows that you care. So seek to understand versus to be understood.
Tara: I love that. Great advice. Thank you both so much for joining us. It’s really, it’s been a treat and I’ve learned a lot and I’m hoping, I’m sure that our audience is gonna take away some great things from this episode. Where can they find you online?
Maritza: Of course, https://www.captivabranding.com/. On our website, we are on LinkedIn and through our weekly newsletter, The Flamingo 60, which gives you marketing tips and trends in one minute or less.
Tara: That’s amazing.
Pamela: Fun, short, and you it’s just really fun.
Aubrey: I’m signing up right now.
Maritza: And you get to hear some stuff about multicultural. You get to hear our crazy mompreneur lives and we are always trying to spot Flamingos and so our audience sends us pictures all over, including Kristen’s mom who had flamings in some like random pond, maybe in her backyard? I can’t remember where it was, but we get flamingo photos from everywhere. Aubrey: Wonderful, I love it. Tara: Wow. That’s awesome. Thank you so much. Aubrey: Thank you. Maritza: Thank you guys. It was great having us. Great having this conversation with you. Thank you for making it fun. Aubrey: Enquiry Tracker is the all in one CRM solution used by over 250 schools. Easily manage all your inquiries, tours, and open houses. Key Instant Analytics help you manage and grow a robust pipeline. So end spreadsheets forever. Tara: The Smart Online Application System with Powerful Document Upload is a game changer. No school is too small or too big, and their Fast Start program will get you up and running in no. Aubrey: Best of all the system is designed by K through 12 education, marketing, and admissions professionals. Check out Inquiry tracker, Enquiry tracker.net. That’s Enquiry with an e tracker.net. Tara: Thanks for joining us on the Mindful School Marketing Podcast. Aubrey: We’d love it if you pop into iTunes and leave a review. Five Star Preferred. Let us know how you like the show. It helps us improve what we’re doing. It helps others find us too.